On fandom

[just_keep_on]

An anon on my formspring posed a set of questions that I thought would be interesting to discuss, since I've seen this in both fandoms that I've been active in, those being Takarazuka and SNSD. (I'm not including SM 'cause I don't think this has happened - actually, does this ever happen in anime/manga fandoms?)

"... people make judgmental

Comments

[anonymous]

Definitely agree that the religious category is the control group or the majority that have the most influence over others opinions that may persuade or dissuade individuals in their fandoms. International fandom can be classified within the first category depending on the degree of their participation but domestic fandom might it view differently ,and how I classified the 'other' is really the opposite of the first classification where as to they merely react in indifference or in strong opposition

[just_keep_on]

(I edited the post with your later comments, anon. Btw, is there a nick you'd like to go by

[anonymous]

I don't know about the "separation of church and state" because in the U.S. government, there still is some religious undertone to their governance. Fandom itself is a theocracy because of the idolization of a figure(s). The government is to support the people but at the same time the people are the government entity itself. So the people for the fandom are the people who make up the fandom itself but have no direct correlation with the artist such as an artist's decision making, but indirectly in the support of the artist's morale...ah scratch that...it makes no sense no matter how I wrap my brain over it

[just_keep_on]

... That kind of confused me ^^; For an idol, fans exist because of them and without one, the other cannot be successful. So it's more of a ... symbiotic relationship? (My biology is about as bad as my government knowledge, both of which being very very bad...)

So indifference is linked to inaction then, whereas antis are about actively taking down an idol and their fandom.

But I guess how people would categorize themselves is purely up to perspective.This is the most interesting to me - how is it possible that I see myself in one category, but another fan sees me in another category? Is the difference in perspective due to the difference in what we believe defines a fan? (I think I just answered my own question.) So ... that difference is due to collectivism vs individualism/culture? I'm not sure where I'm going with this

[happy_riceball]

This is fascinating and horribly confusing because I don't know where to draw lines. XD;

The international fanbase for Takarazuka in particular gets funny, because a lot of us do get the chance to not only view shows live, but interact personally with the actresses. However, I don't think you could call someone "less" of a Blind Faith fan if she hasn't been to Japan. The emotional investment could easily be the same. (Though, I do feel in-person interaction changes the type of love, less idol-worship, more human being admiration.)

I have nothing smart to contribute, but I'll probably peak at other comments. And take a nap.

[happy_riceball]

No, wait, one more comment-- I think this happens in anime/manga fandom too. People might judge others based on the canon they follow, sub/dub, anime/manga, etc. It might not be common, but it happens. I'm never going to forget the first time I went to a convention I heard someone call a dub-liker of Naruto a "Narutard". But, again, I don't think it's as big of an issue as with real-people fandom.

Tied into the anime/manga fandom would be cosplay, and there is a serious hierarchy there.

[just_keep_on]

The international fanbase for Takarazuka in particular gets funny, because a lot of us do get the chance to not only view shows live, but interact personally with the actresses.
I think, of the international fans who are able to make the trek to see Zuka live, only a small fraction get to interact with 'siennes, especially through fan clubs. I mean, how many 'siennes have gaijin fans in their club? Also, there's been more and more talk about how Japanese fans are looking into what international fans are doing (and not approving of some things).

(Though, I do feel in-person interaction changes the type of love, less idol-worship, more human being admiration.)Ooh, this is an interesting point, how the relationship between fan and idol (and I use the term to mean any idol - a 'sienne, a K-pop idol, etc.) changes the more the fan learns about the idol - but take into account the category the fan falls into (i.e. how does a blind faith fan change compared to an indifferent fan) and does that relate to fans changing categories

[happy_riceball]

The things the Japanese fans are criticizing in the foreign fans are the same thing strict foreign fans also criticize, like posting FC goods and such, but I realize you're right-- most people don't get to interact. ^^;; Though, if you know someone in an FC, you're welcome to come to ochakai and events. In that sense, I think we have more... opportunity for interaction? Because idols don't have that sort of thing? But... maybe not. It depends on the actress herself, and how high she ranks in the company. You don't get to have the same interaction with a Top Star as you would have with a ken-1. (I don't know what my point is. XD

[arbitrary_greay]

Delicious!

I think the groups aren't mutually exclusive. Those in Blind Faith can easily class those who aren't as other, as evidenced by "true fan" rhetoric. Positive Observers also tend to recognize that they don't necessarily belong to the Blind Faith category. Classification of an other in inevitable, imo, just at a "other=not me" level. Even if anon specifically meant classification of an other as a negative activity, all classes have their own conception of the bad fan other. In the case of Kpop, everyone classifies the anti as the other

[just_keep_on]

OMG, in trying to find some kind of definition of wota, I instead found a stash of J-pop vs K-pop articles. SO MUCH READING OMG.

ahjussi fans as people who don't go batshit spazzing at concerts but reserved watchers that are quietly concerned with their wealth follows more the "positive observers" angle.But they went to the concert. And they also give really good gifts. Though they're quiet at the actual concert, they actually went. I'd say that a positive observer wouldn't go to a concert if it was only that group, who they're not very connected with. But if it's a concert with multiple groups, it's not just attendance, but actions during the concert that matter 'cause you've got other fan groups out there and this is where active participation would really play a role. Ooh, that totally does bring something new to the mix, when fan groups start competing with each other

[arbitrary_greay]

Eh, intlwota turned out to be actually quite a low ratio on regular blog entries to in-depth meta. They're mostly bloggers that aren't afraid to complain or analyse, but I find that only a few consistently examine meta issues. Those Jpop vs. Kpop articles were more about concrete differences such as the talent, fanchants, and product packaging/content. From which the differences in marketing and such can be extrapolated, but the blog entries themselves don't go there

[just_keep_on]

Hrm. I guess I'll give 'em a skim later on, but I'll continue to defer to you for Jpop info XD

[whatonemore]

Ah--damn, so many Jpop references! Not sure if these thoughts are on tangent/ anything new or well developed , but I'll just throw it out there

[whatonemore]

I suppose sites like AKP don't help with the "you don't know anything" idea that K-fans have about us either.

[just_keep_on]

Isn't SSF pretty much the only SNSD forum that is being viewed as "legit"?
Depends on what you mean by "legit" - SSF isn't the *official* fanclub, it's definitely the biggest international fansite, has gotten into the news a bunch of times for their efforts and events, and have been recognized by SNSD themselves. I would think that there are some in SSF who have been able to get membership into the official Korean fanclub ... or am I thinking about this wrong?

There are probably other sites out there for SNSD - for example, I regularly check SNSD Korean in addition to SSF. I don't follow the threads in soompi, however. So it doesn't surprise me that f(x) has a couple of forums 'cause I'm assuming that there are other forums and sites for SNSD as well. What is interesting is that there isn't a site for f(x) that is considered the "lead" like SSF is in SNSD fandom. Perhaps it's linked to the fact that f(x) hasn't exploded in popularity like SNSD (yet

[whatonemore]

By SSF being legit I definitely meant the latter