That's privilege, not persecution.

[juldea]

Standard fine text applies: this is someone else's words, not mine; I agree with much of what they are saying, but not all, and not every nuance of how they say it; this is directed at/covers certain people who make certain claims, and not the entirety of a religious group; I'm probably preaching to the crowd; etc etc.

Christians have convinced

Comments

[ron_newman]

Not one minority religion chaplain has been able to leap all the hurdles placed in their path to date.

I'm not sure how 'minority religion' is being defined in that sentence, as there certainly are Jewish and Muslim military chaplains.

[juldea]

I believe the original author is referring to various Pagan/Wiccan religions in this particular statement.

[nightskyre]

I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion, after reading the op.

[faerieboots]

I'm just curious, what was the social/political context that prompted this piece? Was it written in response to the 9/11 "burn the Koran" idiocy, or was this in response to the "happy holidays" idiocy? (The original text was clearly written very recently, but her reference to the "happy holidays" business made me wonder how long some of these observations had been stewing)

Also, because this is bugging me, I can't help but note that the entire narrative, while true in the U.S., is written like it is universally true (which it is not). Actively practicing Christianity in a public way in, say, Riyadh, can get you deported. Just sayin'. But I appreciate the sentiment of the writing.

[juldea]

At the bottom of the post I link to the source; that explains the reason it was written and also indicates that it is definitely US-driven.

[faerieboots]

I read the original link and I understand why the author felt moved to post as (s)he did; it just bugged me how universal she made some of her language. Is likely a reflection on me, and not a reflection on the author, but I feel like the actual persecution that happens elsewhere in the world really underscores her point, and it gets a bit lost in the shuffle there.

[juldea]

Are you just saying that she could've ended some of her paragraphs more strongly by pointing out that the ways non-Christian religions have difficulties in the US are similar to the ways Christianity has difficulties in other parts of the world? I can see that, but I don't see her language as universal at all; perhaps that is simply my US-driven perception.

[tiamat360]

So. I went back to read the original post to try to glean some background. And I have to say, now I'm very confused. In what way do Christians think they've been persecuted in the US? I mean, I realize that the point of the original post was to show how privileged Christians are, I'm just trying to figure out why the people who inspired the post claim that they're persecuted. Gay marriage? (Cuz obviously gay people can't be Christian...) Muslims wanting to build mosques in this country? People upset because some Christians want to burn the holy text of another religion?

Oh wait. I forgot. The religious right, pretty much by definition, makes no sense. Fucking hell...

[londo]

"Christians are being persecuted," when I see it, is usually a reaction to people trying to enforce the separation between church and state.

It's sometimes difficult to objectively tell the difference between persecution/punishment and a rolling back of privilege.

[tiamat360]

It's sometimes difficult to objectively tell the difference between persecution/punishment and a rolling back of privilege.

Yes but. No one is trying to take privilege away from Christians (at least, none of the privileges listed above*, or anything else I've heard of**), they just want to give some of those same privileges to other groups. That's not nearly the same thing.

*An aside: one of the problems I have with the post as-written is that I think that things like "Christians know they can publicize their religion in their business and attract customers, not rocks through the windows" are, in fact, a lack of persecution rather than a privilege. Not that I think anyone is trying to take that away from Christians, mind, but I don't think some of those examples work quite the way the author would like them to.

**To be fair, I'm in med school and sort of living under a rock, so it's entirely possible that there are examples that I'm unaware of. Can you think of any?

[londo]

Uh... I can't think, off the top of my head, of any organized campaigns to remove any particular sort of privilege from American Christians/Christianity. On the other hand, I'd be happy to see Christianity and politics be a whole lot more orthogonal than they are now, and if I never again heard anyone assert that America is-and-should-be ideologically a Christian nation, I'd be happy with that.

I know that I've heard cries of persecution when people dislike "one nation under god", "in god we trust", or nativity scenes at city hall.

[nightskyre]

I'm going to pre-empt every\anything with a question.

Do you want me to comment on this?

[londo]

I'm interested in seeing what you have to say on this, so if you end up not posting here, feel free to CC: me.

[nightskyre]

See my responses to this.

[juldea]

As long as you have read the fine text at the top of the post, sure.

[gaudior]

I think this article, Christian Conservatives fight Happy Holidays is a good example of what the entry is talking about.

Christian conservatives say retailers should proudly play up Christmas even if some non-Christian customers are alienated.

"Tough luck," said Donald Wildmon, chairman of the American Family Association. "This is an overwhelmingly Christian country."

Or here-- this one is better: FOX hypes stories to claim 'Christmas under siege.'

O'REILLY: Secular progressives realize that America as it is now will never approve of gay marriage, partial birth abortion, euthanasia, legalized drugs, income redistribution through taxation, and many other progressive visions because of religious opposition.

But if the secularists can destroy religion in the public arena, the brave new progressive world is a possibility.

I like this entry very much! I take faerieboots's point that there are many places in the world where Christians are, in fact, viciously persecuted. But I am annoyed by right-wing conservative Christians trying to claim