Obama, Genius or Wimp?

Dec 20, 2009 10:02

There are at least two ways of looking at the Senate Health Care deal ( Read more... )

health care, tea party, senate, obama, baucus

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prock December 20 2009, 18:14:21 UTC
You forgot to put "whore" in your poll.

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barking_iguana December 21 2009, 02:36:38 UTC
30,000,000 or so people who don't now have coverage, will. It's debatable whether it's a good bill for the established adults in the college-educated class. I think it is. But regardless of that, it's very much a good deal for those not poor enough for medicaid but still in the less rich half of the country.

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prock December 21 2009, 02:46:35 UTC
This is America. If you want health care, you can either buy it, or go to an emergency room. Forcing people to buy bad insurance doesn't sound like making things better.

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jnala December 21 2009, 08:24:42 UTC
Yeah, good luck getting a knee replacement in the ER.

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prock December 21 2009, 08:38:32 UTC
I didn't realize that there were situations where not getting a knee replacement resulted in death.

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jnala December 21 2009, 16:08:00 UTC
I didn't realize that your definition of "health care" only includes life-threatening conditions.

If that's the case, then your idea that making health insurance available to people who otherwise couldn't afford it does not improve the status quo of health care makes a little more sense.

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prock December 21 2009, 16:56:55 UTC
I didn't realize that your definition of "health care" only includes life-threatening conditions.

It doesn't. You were talking about emergency rooms.

Could the health care provided there be better? Yes.

Should people have access to free joint replacement therapy? No.

If that's the case, then your idea that making health insurance available to people who otherwise couldn't afford it does not improve the status quo of health care makes a little more sense.

Nice snark. It is quite possible to improve the status quo of health care, and reduce the overall status quo. I think that's the likely case with Senate bill. In a country where we spend the most on health care, it isn't reasonable to call a bill which will probably increase the cost of health care reform.

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schmengie December 20 2009, 23:55:44 UTC
And you really think that was for personal gain, rather than a political calculation of what was possible and how to advance his principles, both now and later?

abso freaking lutely.

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jpmassar December 21 2009, 00:16:11 UTC
You think he is making decisions to accrue personal wealth?

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schmengie December 21 2009, 00:19:20 UTC
personal gain does not equal personal wealth

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jpmassar December 21 2009, 00:26:16 UTC
Then please specify what constitutes personal gain in this context. He is already at the pinnacle of power, unless he aspires to US Dictator or World Emperor. Presumably you don't mean sexual conquest.

Do you simply mean re-election in three years? Respect?

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schmengie December 21 2009, 00:34:17 UTC
OK, you are right..he is at the pinnacle. But all Presidents begin to worry about "legacy" the day they get elected. Re-election is the first step to legacy. I mean other then presidents who died in their first term, tell me a One Term president who is spoken of in grand terms?
FDR, Lincoln, Washington, Jefferson, Reagan, Teddy R...all multi term presidents.

Re-election is the ultimate Personal Gain. But thats not all. HCR is a legacy event. DADT isnt.

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schmengie December 21 2009, 00:37:38 UTC
i meant to add...its possible you could say John and John Quincy Adams were legendary one term Presidents...but its been a while

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barking_iguana December 21 2009, 00:52:40 UTC
JFK? Not that I think that highly of him.

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schmengie December 21 2009, 00:55:14 UTC
re-read what i said
" I mean other then presidents who died in their first term, tell me a One Term president who is spoken of in grand terms?"

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barking_iguana December 21 2009, 00:56:30 UTC
Gotcha.

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