Third Wheels & Inclusion

[joreth]

I just finished listening to Poly Weekly's recent episode on advice for opening up a couple. I particularly enjoyed it because it was advice aimed at a couple from the point of view of the potential new "third" coming into the relationship. There are lots of advice floating around there telling couples how to open their relationship, like talking

Comments

[terryo]

In a lot of ways, it is like selling a product; it pays to first of all find out what your potential customer base wants or, at least, could be persuaded to be interested in.... Even better mouse traps don't sell themselves!

[joreth]

Huh, now that's an angle to investigate: instead of Polyamory Relationships As A Job Interview, Polyamory As A Sale Using Market Research! How to sell yourself to a prospective partner... step 1) find out what that person wants from you. Step 2) offer what that person wants from you.

Instead of "we, the primary couple, are a corporation with a job that YOU want, so we will interview everyone to find the right candidate who can provide us with the skills we're looking for", it's more like "hi, we want to provide a product, a relationship with us, for your consideration. What would you want our product to do for you? Thanks for the feedback, we will try to incorporate that into our product because we know that if our customers don't like our product, we won't be able to sell it to anyone!"

I think I just found either a new blog post or a new poly conference lecture!

[terryo]

If you think about how singles tend to do dating (not speaking from experience here, but from what I have seen/heard), good daters tend to listen to their dates and find out the date's interests and attitudes. Those less successful often seem to focus on 'selling themselves' without listening so well to their date.
Of course, there is the risk of the 'good dater' approach in that the good dater might be tempted to 'look good' to the date by submerging parts of him/herself or pushing in uncomfortable directions in order to better suit (in their minds) what they perceive the date would like to see. Out come the masks! Can you imagine the disaster if a couple tries to do that for someone they are wooing?

Advanced skills

[edm]

FWIW, I suspect people with considerable practice in any area get perceived as having advanced skills (or being enlightened), simply due to the "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" phenomenon; if someone doesn't feel like they could do that in their own life, they're more likely to perceive those who do feel like they can do it in their own life as in possession of additional skills -- even if the only difference is "lots of practice". And "lots of practice" is not the "easy way" answer that people want to hear, for it involves mistakes and time passing, and those are often perceived as difficult and problematic.

The "effortless" application of "basic skills" is pretty much the definition of mastering something (in the traditional apprenticeship sense).

Ewen

Re: Advanced skills

[joreth]

You could be right, there! Although, my knowing what is the more compassionate, more considerate, more effective way to manage a relationship is not the same thing as being good at it. I certainly still make plenty of mistakes, and being as public as I am means that they're not exactly hidden from public view either. It's even worse when I mess up with another semi-public figure and then both our audience bases get to see the fireworks

Re: Advanced skills

[edm]

Yes, tacit's post is exactly the "mastery" distinction I have in mind; it's true in most areas that were traditionally learnt by apprenticeship. From the point of view of someone just starting out, a "black belt" really does have awesome superpowers; it's only later you learn enough to discover they don't know everything (or can't do everything)... and that "black belt" is something within your grasp.

I also think that even more than not wanting to hear "there's no easy way", people particularly don't want to hear "you're going to make mistakes". Even more so when the "you're going to make mistakes" puts something that they value deeply (eg, their existing relationship) at risk. I think there's a feeling of being "all in" (in the gambling sense) which makes it seem extra risky. A lot of the "original couple first" type rules I've seen strike me as "we'll gamble, but just a little" safety mechanisms

Re: Advanced skills

[terryo]

an example of being good at teaching but not so much at doing is that some of the best piano teachers are not the best performers, but they KNOW how to teach the skills needed.