9-11 Quarter!

[jordan179]

Back in the Bad Old Days when we took war seriously, there was one great check against atrocity. It was the knowledge that, if you did something egregiously bad to a surrendering foe, if you massacred prisoners or captured civilians, and the word got out, the same would be done to youAnd nobody would blame those who did it to you. Because you did

Comments

[juliet_winters]

Actually you are a practicing Christian if you forgive terrorists their deeds.

However, it is utterly irresponsible for even Christians to let such mad dogs live--though you may forgive them in your hearts as you put them down as efficiently as possible.

[jordan179]

I'm not a Christian.

However, it is utterly irresponsible for even Christians to let such mad dogs live--though you may forgive them in your hearts as you put them down as efficiently as possible.

I agree. Because, as long as they live, they will keep on killing the innocent.

[juliet_winters]

Sorry, I meant "you" in the general reader sense of the word.

I have gotten into arguments with Christian friends over the death penalty. I'm for it. In fact, I think sometimes the clear, near, and certain knowledge of impending death is the only thing that will bring some heinous criminals to God. Lord knows they have long enough to contemplate their faith these days.

Other Christians will try to argue that because Jesus spoke against the woman being stoned for adultery no one should be killed for a crime. Judge not and all that. Personally, I think he was offering a subtle threat to other adulterers in the crowd.

[yechezkiel]

Though it was inconsistently (and all-too-infrequently) applied, the first instances of banning the death penalty--or restricting its use--all came with the spread of Christianity. Imprisonment was considered enough.

It is one thing to put down a mad man on the loose, and another to shoot him in a cage. Killing is never righteous, though sometimes necessary. Threatening to kill some one to save their soul comes up shallow; the same twisted logic has been used to persecute non-believers and is more suited to the Qur'an than the Church.

[writerspleasure]

cogent reasoning, as usual. fascinating perspective on the 9/11 plane civilians as prisoners - i have not heard that before.

[jordan179]

fascinating perspective on the 9/11 plane civilians as prisoners - i have not heard that before.

I'm surprised that nobody's thought of this. If the 9-11 attacks were acts of war, then what other status would captured civilians have? Actually, the technical term is "internee," but a captor is responsible for the good treatment of his internees.

Al Qaeda, therefore, escalated to prisoner-murder as policy on Day One of the war, and we have no moral responsiblity to abstain from returning the favor.

9-11 Quarter!

I agree.

[starblade_enkai]

However I must amend that we should only commit those atrocities in return when it is in our interest. When doing so will save lives, and deal out justice to our true enemies. There is a difference between self defense and revenge for revenge's sake.

For instance if the people we hold in captive were genuinely HELPING us, and ONLY helping us, either directly or indirectly, I think our first priority is to get them to offer us proof and reserve the more serious treatments to those who have no evidence to offer in their defense.

Likewise, when we do have evidence of harm done to us by a prisoner, the more serious forms of questioning, and even perhaps forms which could be considered torture, should be the first thins we do to them, without reservations or hope for appeal.

Re: I agree.

[mindstalk]

For instance if the people we hold in captive were genuinely HELPING us, and ONLY helping us, either directly or indirectly, I think our first priority is to get them to offer us proof and reserve the more serious treatments to those who have no evidence to offer in their defense.

Ah, guilty until proven innocent.

How about "I was minding my own business when a neighbor who envied my sheep or wanted a bounty told your soldiers that I was a terrorist"? And what proof do you expect them to give from the bowels of Gitmo?

forms which could be considered torture

Used to be that you could identify the bad guys in a movie because they were the ones using torture. "Herr Mueller... has his methods." People like you and Jordan are a bigger threat to our *civilization* than the terrorists.

Never mind that it doesn't even work that well.

Re: I agree.

[jordan179]

Ah, guilty until proven innocent.

Such is war.

Re: I agree.

[starblade_enkai]

People like you and Jordan are a bigger threat to our *civilization* than the terrorists.

doubleplusgoodthink, comrade mindstalk!
doubleplusgood doubleplusduckspeak!
doubleplusbellyfeel goodthink!

[yechezkiel]

"Quarter" in warfare, along with "just war" has always struck me as somewhat strange. If you must engage in warfare, your chief responsibility is to win. Massacres and terror are not winning strategies (or even part of warfare proper, as they do not target combatants), but you shouldn't be reading POWs their Miranda rights, either.

Seven years in, and the WTC site is still an empty pit.

[anonymous]

While lawyers and activists bicker 24/7 about "This Sacred Ground". At this rate, it will remain an empty pit until the Twin Minarets of the Great Mosque of Triumph rise to replace the Twin Towers.

Your American Mandate wouldn't dick around like this.
They would Do What Has To Be Done (TM).
Do you not hear El Deguello?