Surrender, Genocide ... Or What? - A Very Dark Scenario

[jordan179]

The following, posted on The Gates of Vienna by "El Ingles," managed to horrify even me -- and I say "even" me because I've been discussing exactly this possibility, but it gave me a chill to hear someone else outline it, in detail, and worse, outline the reasons why alternate scenarios are improbable. It's in "Surrender, Genocide ... Or What?",

Comments

[steltek]

I cannot countenance genocide, whatever the motivation. But I don't think that will even be a consideration, ultimately. Isn't it more likely that the nations of Europe are so utterly entrenched in extremist multiculturalism that they will indeed be quietly conquered, with detractors shouted down as facists, racists, or xenophobes? You say that it will reach a point where they simply must do some horrible thing or else be conquered, but with all the outrages that have gone on in Europe and been answered by dissembling and half measures, it seems most likely to me that the "or else" is the probable outcome.

I cannot countenance genocide, whatever the motivation.

[steltek]

Repeat after me, Steltek:

"It's Them or Us."

The only choice Europe/Eurabia will have is who gets to be Them and who gets to be Us. When enough of the EU falls to Islam, the survivors will go Fascist and start counter-cleansing. Just like 1932 Germany, when the only two choices were the Communists or the National Socialists.

Eurabian Caliphate or the Fourth Reich. Your Choice, O Euros in your intellectual salons deconstructing Camus and denouncing American Cowboys.

If we're lucky, the Euros and Eurabians will kill each other off and spare America the trouble. Twice in one century was enough; this time, just bring the popcorn.

[bdunbar]

You don't have to sanction genocide - but you can accept that 'If This Goes On' it might happen.

... but with all the outrages that have gone on in Europe and been answered by dissembling and half measures, it seems most likely to me that the "or else" is the probable outcome.

People will put up with a lot. When it's blindingly obvious that you're up against the wall, things have a way of happening.

I'm betting that the guys running the EU will keep the lid on just long enough to prevent an peaceful solution, but not long enough to avoid a whole lotta bloodshed.

If you liked the Thirty Years war, you'll love what happens in the 21st century!

[jordan179]

You don't have to sanction genocide - but you can accept that 'If This Goes On' it might happen.

Exactly.

Little Green Footballs made the same mistake -- Johnson wrongly assumed that "El Inglese" was hoping for the genocide scenario. He wasn't. He was warning that it might happen.

[jasolater]

According to the Quran, "Allah" instructs Muslims to fight all mankind until all religion is for "Allah". Those who do not submit are given a lower class status or murdered.

The Quran, and those who believe in it, scare me a lot more that someone who writes about the possible implications of the current clash between Islam and civilized society.

[jasolater]

"The Quran, and those who believe in it, scare me a lot more than someone who writes about the possible implications of the current clash between Islam and civilized society."

There, I fixed it.

You Forgot #4...

[zakueins]

...in which Europe (at least mainland Western Europe) becomes Islamic countries and the world gets worse from there on out.

I can't see a really fascist Europe these days, at least among the natives. For the most part, anybody with any real drive is either emigrating or working outside of their home countries. They might be able to use ghetto means (walling off "Islamic" neighborhoods to control them-riot and we seal the gates and cut off the water and power until things calm down), but I don't see that happening if there's any real option.

I recommend "America Alone" by Mark Stein. In it, he has a pessimistic and depressing thesis that most likely the only "free" countries will be the United States and maybe Australia, with Great Britain if they're lucky. If a country isn't a dictatorship or a kleptocracy, it'll probably be a Islamic country.

Re: You Forgot #4...

[jordan179]

...in which Europe (at least mainland Western Europe) becomes Islamic countries and the world gets worse from there on out.

I don't think that this will happen because the demographics don't give the Muslims a majority for decades to come, the Muslims are militarily incompetent, and (very importantly) they are jumping the gun. The Muslims are already acting like victors in a conquered nation, and in the process they are outraging the Europeans, particularly the younger ones.

There's a very good reason why there are no precedents for a minority with no particular technological or organizational advantages behaving like this. It's because most minorities are very much aware that this is asking for expulsion or worse. Muslim triumphalism is betraying them here, causing them to telegraph their intentions.

I think in the end it will come down to yet another example of evil carrying the seeds of its own destruction.

Re: You Forgot #4...

[fuzzybunny916]

"I think in the end it will come down to yet another example of evil carrying the seeds of its own destruction."

So the why the worry?

Re: You Forgot #4...

[jordan179]

I think in the end it will come down to yet another example of evil carrying the seeds of its own destruction.

So the why the worry?

Because it would be much worse for the development of both European and Western Civilization to win by committing genocide, than to win by simply enforcing its own liberal-democratic laws on immigrants. After doing something like that, Europe will no longer be a very nice place. For generations.

[oronoda]

It's funny because I was told to become an "expert" on Gaza Strip (as well as other areas) at work and while reading the history, I'm just baffled by how anyone can be offended by what Israel is doing. Gaza is run by a group that declared they will not rest until Israel is wiped off the map. What is Israel supposed to do? Just sit back and wait for it to happen?

I read an article in which a Libyan man tried to say that Gaza is worse than the Holocaust. Wait a sec... I'm sorry, they did it to themselves. Israel gave the region MANY chances to behave and they just keep on getting worse and worse even destroying goods that is shipped to them from the EU and Israel. It baffles me...

[cutelildrow]

Hell, if the Israeli Muslims can behave like civilized people, then the rest of Islam who DOESN'T (or any other who doesn't) really have no excuse.

[sergeantbrother]

The sad fact is that genocide is already happening. Its happening now, its the intention of the Islamic immigrants into Europe and their appeasers. Given enough time the Muslims will be a majority in these western nations - then the real genocide and oppression begins

[jordan179]

There will be genocide, there is no argument against that. It will happen. The only question is whether or not it will be Europeans who are the victims of this genocide or if it will be the Muslim invaders. Totalitarian regimes will rise in Europe, it must happen, the only question will be if it is nativist totalitarians who arise as a result of the Muslim invasion or if will be Islamic regimes enforcing Sharia law over Europe to eradicate the last shreds of European culture and Christianity from the world.

It doesn't have to be that way, though. All the liberal democracies need to do is simply start enforcing their own laws on the immmigrants, and they'd break the violent hold that the Islamist culture has on its own members, and they could assimilate them. That, combined with a reduction in the immigration allowed, would enable the Europeans to avoid the need for severe violence on either side. The terrible irony is that it is the very desire of the European elites to accommodate the Muslims which is rendering genocide

[oronoda]

That will never happen though. People are way too nice.

[sergeantbrother]

But that would be RACIST! RACIST! RACIST!

Once there was a generation that held their grandparents in contempt: "Why didn't they stop Hitler when they had the chance?"

They never thought their own grandchildren -- the ones who survived -- would hold them in greater contempt: "Why didn't they stop the Mullahs before they got The Bomb?"