Geocentric Earth Atheists and Theists: Religion in Equestria

[jordan179]

(Wherein, having tackled Sex, I will now discuss something much less controversial) ;-)

So I was thinking about the issue of religion in Equestria, and beyond it on the whole planet.

There is a concept in TV Tropes called the "Flat Earth Atheist," whose article points out:

Atheism in a clockwork universe ostensibly overseen by a completely non-

Comments

[marycatelli]

There was a Justice Society issue in which an atheist refused to admit the existence of the New Gods or any other such god as relevant to the philosophical issue. Quite rightly. Because by "god" you can mean the Supreme Being, the Ground of Existence, the Unmoved Mover, whose existence is not in the category as yours -- and you can also mean "being that is worshiped" in which case there have been scads of human gods.

[jordan179]

Right. Twilight Sparkle is quite aware of the fact that Princess Celestia isn't all-powerful or perfect, and almost certainly not antecedent to the Universe, and hence not "Goddess" in the sense of philosophical monotheism. Of course, Twilight knows her personally and well: far more so than do most Equestrians, even educated ones.

In fact, Twilight Sparkle might be philosophically an atheist, or agnostic, regarding omnipotent deities, though she certainly believes in the ones she knows personally.

[eric_hinkle]

Celestia chooses to be nice about it, because that's who she is, but given her raw power, social skills, and immortality (the last allowing her to engage in social engineering on a nation-wide scale if she so wishes), if she instead decreed that step pyramids be built in every city in the land and appropriate numbers of virgins sacrificed upon them during the Summer Sun Festival to appease her hunger for innocent pony blood and keep the Sun on schedule, so it would be done.I think there are probably at least a few dozen fanfics along these lines

[jordan179]

I think there are probably at least a few dozen fanfics along these lines...

Just straight Tyrant!Celestia, or actual evocations of Mesoamerican solar sacrifices?

And my own take on Celly and Luna was summed up pretty well in 'My Little Balladeer', in which Silver John (who's a Christian of the southern Appalachian variety, albeit exceptionally well-read) thought of them as being like gods -- not the Supreme Being, but definitely divine and good. Like angels, or maybe (going to Tolkien) Valar or Maiar.

That's what I was thinking too, especially in regards to their incarnate forms. For a time in my chronology I had them doing exactly what the Istari were doing: wandering the Earth in an attempt to help the recovering Pony civilization beat off its enemies. It probably wasn't even possible for them to set up as a diarchy until they defeated Discord, which I'm guessing was around half a millennium before Luna's exile and thus 1500 years before Luna's return and the start of the series

[kalance]

I am reminded of the Ultima series, and the Avatar. One of the larger arcs through the game's series was the establishment of a "fake" religion; insofar as it was man-made and touted the embracing of a system of virtues and morals rather than an anthropomorphic being(s).

[headnoises]

How would some fundamentalist Christians -- or worse, Muslims -- react to the appearance of goddesses at all?

Don't some Muslims believe in djinn and other "spirits"?

[xolo]

Most religions that come to mind for me are there to remind people of their relationship with their god or gods, and to reinforce that one should behave as the gods wish, even when it's difficult, or contrary to one's own desires. I'm not sure either one of those are going to be needed when your goddess is someone you can actually go talk to in person.

[jordan179]

That's true, and most of the Ponies would utterly trust Celestia's statements involving righteous conduct, so it would be only the most daring philosophers among the Ponies who would even care very much about Powers higher then their Sun Princess.

[headnoises]

I did actually consider the "crusader" question-- decided it was the "dedicated to a goal" version.

I suggest the word "Kami" be used instead of god (or God)-- been watching Naruto fandubs and where they translate "god," the characters say "Kami."

Some poking around indicates it's about the same idea as, oh, The North Wind, Father Frost, The Thunder God or Four Corner's Valley Spirit, rather than God type god.

[jordan179]

I did actually consider the "crusader" question-- decided it was the "dedicated to a goal" version.

Oh yes. Though note that this was also the original meaning of being a (human) Crusader, though events quickly corrupted the ideal. It's obvious that the CMC aren't particularly religious fanatics, though they are indeed generally Virtuous by Equestrian standards. Mostly.

Yeah, "kami" is a good expression of what the Alicorn Sisters and other powerful supernatural forces in that world seem to be.

[eric_hinkle]

It's obvious that the CMC aren't particularly religious fanatics,

Heh, related to your prior comment about human sacrifice, I remember an old one-panel comic that shows the CMC about to sacrifice a pony while calling out 'Cutie Mark Crusader Sun Sacrificers!', with a horrified Twilight running up from offscreen.

[headnoises]

Is each Great Power on Equestria's Earth ruled or protected by some kind of Physical God, and is having such a being the essence of Great-Power status on Equestria? Or is Equestria uniquely favored in this regard?

I don't know of anything saying if it's unique, but the place where Zebras are from has normal natural processes rather than being pony-powered, so I'd guess Kami are non-universal.

.... just realized this makes, say, the pegasi who are on cloud/rain duty low ranking kami, which very much explains Rainbow Dash.

[jordan179]

In the semi-canon Expanded Universe of the comics, there are apparently other (weaker) beings who are analogues of Celestia, and rule some other races. As I said, though, that's only semi-canon.

All the Ponies have special talents, ranging from the mundane to the at least slightly supernatural. All Pegasi seem as a race to be able to walk on and otherwise do things to clouds. I'm guessing that this is independent of their flight abilities, though absent the flight they would find it difficult to get around in their environment, as weakly-flighted Pegasi like Fluttershy (as a filly) or Scootaloo (who can hover for short periods but can't really fly) know. Likewise, all Unicorns have at least some telekinesis, though to use it with the power of Twilight Sparkle or the crafting precision of Rarity Belle are extremely high manifestations of such talent.

[eric_hinkle]

.... just realized this makes, say, the pegasi who are on cloud/rain duty low ranking kami, which very much explains Rainbow Dash.

I'm now imagining how Dash would react to worship and sacrifices made to her asking for the weather to improve. Her friends might well have to reign her ego in again before she starts asking for a temple or shrine.