Why Homosexuality is NOT Unnatural

[jordan179]

I have long heard the argument that homosexuality is "unnatural" and hence inherently inferior to heterosexuality.  And it is certainly true that, were all or even a great minority of humans homosexual, the ability of the human race to replace its numbers without extreme technological intervention would be at serious risk.  The argument then goes

Comments

[maxgoof]

There are a few flaws with this argument

The Uses of Homosexuality

[jordan179]

It presumes that homosexuality is inborn.

I don't believe that the whole constellation of behaviors called "homosexuality" is inborn, but I do believe that the tendencies to be attracted by members of the same vs. opposite sexes, and to have a broad vs. narrow sexual target (the essence of bisexuality vs. hetero/homosexuality) are probably influenced by genetics.

It is not as common as you indicate. Only 4% of the population identifies themselves as LGBTQ.

4% is still 1 in 25. And my larger figure includes those who have some such tendencies and may have experimented. Obviously, someone who is only slightly homosexual is likely to produce offspring, but since he is that much less motivated to make the attempt his statistical success at doing so will be less. In evolutionary biology, a small difference in statistical success can over multiple generations result in selective pressure: hence, if homosexual tendencies were of no countervailing value to a species, we would expect them to be strongly selected against.

As we define

Re: The Uses of Homosexuality

[maxgoof]

The idea that it might be used to bind us together has a huge flaw.

If it did, why would humans society throughout history be so homophobic? It isn't just religions. Most societies frowned upon it. One would think that if it truly held society together, those societies which tolerated it would flourish while those which discouraged it would falter.

The opposite appears to be true.

Homosexual Drives and Motivations

[jordan179]

Most gays don't become gay because they could not compete with heterosexuals in obtaining women.

Most people who self-identify as gay do not do so. The same is true of lesbians.

Now, do you remember your comment about prison inmates -- who show a high incidence of homosexuality even if they refuse to identify their behavior as such? Being in prison is generally a pretty severe obstacle to finding mates of the opposite sex, even in insanely liberal societies such as our own.

I'm pretty sure most gays would find this assertion rather insulting.

I'm sure they would. What's the relevance of this statement to its truth or falsity?

The idea that pre-pubescent homosexual attraction binds society together is fraught with other problems, particularly the implication that gays don't grow out of it, meaning that they are socially, physically, and/or psychologically stunted in their growth.

First of all, it need neither be pre-pubescent, nor need those who feel the attraction be feeling it as sexual attraction. Comradeship among fellow

[ford_prefect42]

what I have generally heard is that it's an epi-genetic response to the overabundance of a certain gender in the immediate environment. tribes with too many males will kick out a few homosexual males to relieve mate competition while still having the presence of the physically strong specimens to perform "male" functions

[luagha]

To add to this, the notoriously fast-reproducing finch has an 'uncle system.' Family units will have several non-mating 'uncles' who show interest in the other uncles but still contribute to the family unit thus helping insure that the family unit's genes survive

[gothelittle]

There's another hypothesis that seems to fit the data strongly. Around age 3-5, among boys, a particular gender identification takes place, in which the boy pulls away from the mother and seeks out the affirmation of the father. If the father does not spend some time positively affirming his young son, the necessary bond may not be fully formed, and that leaves the boy more vulnerable to same-sex attraction later on. You have to identify as male before you are attracted to female.

It's likely that a father with multiple sons has less attention to spend on the 'babies'.

The less-than-one-percent of people who are specifically, exclusively homosexual are almost all male. For females, the entire realm is so completely different that I don't think we can even consider a lesbian and a gay man to be in the same category.

[benschachar_77]

More problems

[jordan179]

Most noticeably when you talk about animals and prison gays, random behaviors brought on by the environment versus the discrete lifestyle argued by the LGBT population that doesn't change at all.

If there was no homosexual desire as a common capability of human beings, then why would prisoners not instead take up masturbation, or even macrame. As for animals, in many species homosexual behavior is normal, as in most of the animals do it, save when actually mating with members of the opposite sex.

I'll be honest your entire evolutionary argument is so profoundly twisted and strange I can not understand how you came to this conclusion given how obtuse it is. Evolution is about passing on your DNA to the next generation. How does guaranteeing that certain offspring will never reproduce increase that likelihood. You are implicitly conceding the point to your opponents.

Evolution is about your genes successfully arranging that copies of the same genes exist in future generations. This may be through you successfully breeding, or

[benschachar_77]

"]If there was no homosexual desire as a common capability of human beings, then why would prisoners not instead take up masturbation, or even macrame. As for animals, in many species homosexual behavior is normal, as in most of the animals do it, save when actually mating with members of the opposite sex

[cutelildrow]

re: italics

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_formatting.asp

[kitten_goddess]

Why would homosexuality be a consolation prize? Gays and lesbians aren't likely to be attracted to people of the opposite gender.