Obama's Jimmy Carter Moment

[jordan179]

A lot of people are criticizing Barack Obama for the military intervention against Gaddafi in Libya and the pressure he's put on Bashir Assad in Syria.  I find it difficult to join in this criticism.

Yes, the Libyan dictator has been, and the Syrian dictator is likely to be, replaced by virulently anti-American regimes.  And yes, Obama is as

Comments

[melvin_udall]

You are absolutely right on Egypt. Obama was to Egypt what Carter was to Iran's revolution, and by no accident. They both wanted those revolutions. (Of course, Obama also had an opportunity to reverse Iran's revolution back to freedom, but dropped it)

Gaddafi was capitulating to the West. It was in our interest to leave it as is.

Syria required at least arms supplies when it started. Obama held off on purpose so radicals will control it. This is not to our benefit, as it empowers Iran & Russia.

No Forgiveness for Lockerbie

[jordan179]

You are absolutely right on Egypt. Obama was to Egypt what Carter was to Iran's revolution, and by no accident. They both wanted those revolutions. (Of course, Obama also had an opportunity to reverse Iran's revolution back to freedom, but dropped it)

Both Carter and Obama operated from a visceral conviction that whatever was anti-Western was nobler and more pure than whatever was pro-Western, and both are reaping the whirlwind they sowed. Hopefully, it will blow Obama out of office as it did Carter.

Gaddafi was capitulating to the West. It was in our interest to leave it as is.You would be right, if not for the Lockerbie incident and especially Gaddafi's reception of his agent. For Lockerbie there can and should be no forgiveness, and with those who would perpetuate such crimes, the smile of apparent forgiveness should be only the prelude to the whistling of the bombs. No matter what happens next, I am glad that Gaddafi's story, and the story of his dynasty, ended in fear, flight, pain, death and disgrace

[expanding_x_man]

In Egypt, Obama has been a complete disaster and I agree, this has set us up for wars going forward into the next twenty years.

[jordan179]

His kowtowing to CAIR at home has also set up for future civil unrest. Women, Jews and gays who today celebrate Obama will tomorrow be dodging rioting Muslim mobs who see their freedom as anathema.

(and yes, I admit that Dubya actually started this tendency in American government, but Obama has taken it much farther than Dubya ever did).

[cutelildrow]

You'd THINK the situation in Europe would serve as writing on the wall, but nooooo...

[jordan179]

There is a very strong tendency for those who counsel appeasement to then blame the victims of the resultant betrayals for their own victimization. Note how Britain and France blamed Czechoslovakia for the Sudeten Crisis in 1938.

IMO, Hitler would have gotten away with the annexation of the rest of the country if he had just waited a few more years, instead of jumping the gun. In fact, he did get away with it in 1939 -- it took his invasion of Poland the very same year for the Allies to declare war!

[baron_waste]

“Salutory lessons.” Uh huh. They won't be the lessons you thought you were teaching, but the schooling will indeed be most effective.

And the results, of course, very useful.

“Remember, citizens: If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear!”

“Fourth Amendment? Search warrants?! Lemme see your ID, you Terrorist™-sympathizer!”

And the beat goes on (and the beat goes on…)

[jordan179]

Salutory lessons.” Uh huh. They won't be the lessons you thought you were teaching, but the schooling will indeed be most effective.

Unlike the usual historical case, devastating our enemies will make countries more eager to remain our enemies? Why?

And the results, of course, very useful.

“Remember, citizens: If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear!”

“Fourth Amendment? Search warrants?! Lemme see your ID, you Terrorist™-sympathizer!”

You seem to be assuming that we could have avoided the Terrorist Wars. But most of the causes for which we are ostensibly being attacked are essentially internal to both our culture and theirs: we are free and (by their standards) licentious; they are moved by a compulsion to world conquest literally written in their sacred books. The biggest offense we give to them is that we blatantly exist and live our Infidel lives merrily unconcerned with the strictures of shari'a, having no particular respect for and paying no particular tax to the ummaI think a lot of your hatred of Israel

[baron_waste]

…

… I don't have “hatred of Israel.” I recognize how Machiavellian Tel Aviv can be, I'm aware that as with most people they get away with everything they can, I don't blindly consider them latter-day saints one and all, and their enemies to be cardboard demons - it was a major step up when Sergio Leone and Co's “spaghetti Westerns” replaced such simple-minded “white hat” versus “black hat” cartooning in American cinema, and trying to apply it to international politics is just foolish.

Try it this way: If the West wasn't buying its energy from the Middle East, would anything in the Middle East matter any more to us or to anyone than it did before we started doing so?

[This is AD 2012. Saudi Arabia existed in AD 1922. So did Syria, so did Jordan. So? If you didn't read National Geographic magazine, you might not know it!]

[baron_waste]

Re: Machiavellian

- Like adopting the Leftist tactic of smearing opponents of your views as “racist” or in this case, “anti-Semite.” That was you, tried to pull that stunt a few months ago, wasn't it? I have no reason to remember and I don't, but I don't think it was ford_prefect42 and of course it wasn't cutelildrow, as she's considerably above using Leftist tactics on principle.

[“Hatred of Israel.” Mmm hmm. Quite the Cyclops view you have, there: No depth perception at all.]