A Source of Sad Wonder -- The Western Left's Abandonment of Muslim Women

[jordan179]

When I saw that science fiction writer jaylake had posted the following article by Jonathan Lyons, "Islam, Women and the West," essentially dismissing the Western image of Muslim women as oppressed as a mere Orientalist delusion

Comments

[gothelittle]

It's a sad state of affairs, especially because the women in these countries are often eager to accept Western freedoms, even when they prefer the veil for their own reasons. (It is possible to choose the veil. Entirely possible to have no choice, but possible to choose it as well. I can go further into this and the reasons for it if you'd like, since I've got a pretty good grounding in that area.)

So when these people decide that Muslim women don't deserve the same rights because they're 'honoring the culture', what they're actually doing is 'honoring' the *man's* culture while ignoring the women altogether.

[oronoda]

Precisely this.

I remember reading about an Egyptian secular woman making an incredibly valid point. She said people argue that women can choose to wear the veil but it is not a choice if it is between getting raped or not. And in many of these countries, especially the ones that are offered a choice, are often told that if they don't wear it, they will get raped. That is not a choice. That is emotional blackmail.

[gothelittle]

I absolutely agree.

There are women in cultures where wearing a head covering has nothing to do with whether or not you're likely to get raped, however, and they may choose to cover for a variety of reasons.

The most common I've heard is a desire to set themselves apart from the feminist culture of sexual availability equaling sexual empowerment. They want to send the message that they are not sexually available, that they are decidedly not part of the 'hookup culture'. Now I'm not talking about the full, face-concealing veil. I'm talking about a covering that usually only conceals all or a part of the hair/head while leaving the face completely visible.

Orthodox Jewish women, for example, cover their hair after marriage (but not before) as a sign that they are, well, 'taken'.

[oronoda]

Yeah, it all depends on why you wear it. That is what it comes down to. And many women in the Middle East wear it because they are told their very person drive men to temptation and they will not be able to help themselves. That is not freedom.

I, myself, dress rather modestly even though I'm not really religious. I do it mainly because I'd rather not stick out and I feel more comfortable that way.

It is funny though, the Yemeni woman who won the Noble Peace Prize used to wear the full veil but when she decided to get politically active, she wore just the head scarf because she "wanted to be taken seriously." She's an Islamist but I wonder if she bothered to think about what she just said and how that coincides with Islamism.

[spiffystuff]

Bomb them all, that'll help those women!

I'm very much behind women's rights, even when the "culture" is for repression - they can darn well change their culture to respect everyone's rights.

But I find it funny when folks mostly seem to talk about women's rights as a platform to attack political groups they disagree with. As an issue near and dear to my heart it's incredibly irritating to see a serious issue conflated with "since I found a crazy person on the "left" that said this all the left hates women!".

[benschachar_77]

Except no one here is doing that and Mr. Cole's sentiment is far more widespread than you'd think (Cracked said pretty much the same thing) and we all have some experience with this mindset in internet debates or just look at a few of the comments on that site.

The left started this mindset solely so they bludgeon Republicans over the head with the race card. We are only responding because they attacked us with this insipid theory first.

[spiffystuff]

Well I'm glad I'm libertarian then, these hyperbolic shenanigans are silly.

[cutelildrow]

Cracked? Where? I must read. *.* Link please?

[rowyn]

Wow, Mr. Cole! So, since some novelists in the mid-20th century made up stuff about the Middle East, I guess it's safe to assume that every news report, from sources ranging from the NYT and Time magazine to Fox News, about women being stoned for adultery or denied the right to drive, own a car, choose a spouse, leave a spouse witout being maimed or killed, etc., must also be completely fictitious! Gosh, that sure is a load off my mind. Thanks, Mr. Cole! /sarcasm

[mosinging1986]

Well said.

It leaves me utterly BAFFLED how so many liberals - especially women in general and those who call themselves feminists - continually defend this ideology that causes such misery for all humanity, but especially for women.

I have never once found any liberal who would explain it to me. My so-called liberal friends have long ago dumped me, so I cannot ask them. I wish I'd thought to ask them when they were around. I need to know, and from them, directly.

[polaris93]

I think it's due to the human drive to be part of a social group. You don't want to antagonize people in your group, or you'll lose your community, so you don't speak out against injustice when others in your group champion the situation that promotes it. Liberal men embrace Middle Eastern ways of doing things, agreeing with Middle Eastern men on their way of life, so liberal women go along to get along, not wanting to be alienated from liberals in general. These are weak people who seriously can't survive on their own, emotionally speaking.

[mosinging1986]

Makes sense. When you see how cruel many liberals tend to be toward anyone who doesn't fall in lockstep with their views, I can see why people wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of it!

[polaris93]

I know how cruel they are -- the hard way. That cruelty may in part come from fear of what they perceive as a threat to their acceptance as a member of their group, which they would almost rather die than lose (the experience is like bad divorces are for those divorcing). They only feel powerful and comfortable as part of the group -- losing it is something like losing one's skin, or, if one is part of the gun culture (which I am), one's guns. They really have no will of their own, no strength at all, outside that group. Hence the hostility that any perceived challenge to group beliefs evokes from them, even if it isn't meant as such. See, e.g., http://frontpagemag.com/2012/02/10/the-high-price-of-telling-the-truth-about-islam-1/2/ for a disturbing case in point.

[cutelildrow]

I've pretty much given up trying to understand it and just accept it as part of the misogyny that's ALSO inherent in the Left. They're the ones who've internalized newspeak in it's entirety - to the point, sometimes, I wonder if they think "I'm going to kill you, dismember your corpse, kill your male children, and rape your wife and daughters next to your corpses" is "This is how we say hi!"

Well, only if a Muslim says it anyway. If it's a Christian telling a liberal to get lost, it's practically assault and psychological raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaep!!!!11' *eyeroll*

I have lots more graphic ways of describing how stupid it is, but I spent most of today listening to Aff snarking. It'd be entertaining, metaphorically correct, but rather ...rude.