Challenging femmephobia

[johanna_hypatia]

Disparaging or even hostile attitudes toward femmes and femininity I've often heard from both cis women and trans women invite a look at a hatred that I've found to be very prevalent and yet hardly ever acknowledged, let alone analyzed. We need to call it out for what it is, another form of misogynyI suppose in response to comments I've encountered

Comments

[invisione]

I find femininity to be looked down on even in society at large. It is seen as a weakness. Yes, it's perpetuated by the patriarchy--the one that wants to keep us "barefoot and pregnant." Femmes are, at best, automatically assumed to be weak and helpless. At worst, they're treated like simpletons. People always seem to mistake gentleness, which is an inherent part of femininity, to be a chink in your armor, something to be exploited and easily manipulated.

You and I are about the femme-est femmes I know, and we're both strong, intelligent women, not to be messed with. Sterotypes be damned.

[johanna_hypatia]

That's one of the many things I love about you, dear sweet beautiful babygirl. :*

[nodesignation]

Yeah, I was a bit frustrated with those comments as well. It's hard to decide what to focus on when there is so much to respond to

[johanna_hypatia]

Thank you. I got especially jazzed by your observation:When trans women and transfeminine genderqueers are assumed to be conformist, apolitical, and weak while trans men and transmasculine genderqueers are assumed to be radical, with it, and hip, that’s transmisogyny (and femmephobia, and subversivism).

That needed so badly to be said. Before Julia Serano published Whipping Girl, I thought I'd been all alone in thinking this. Likewise, it was a thrill to find your analysis stating it even more strongly and succinctly. (What does subversivism mean?)

Alternately, when entering patriarchal cis-centric spaces, femme cis women might gain some privilege for meeting gender expectations, but are still experiencing a devaluing of their femininity.
Exactly-- that's why I felt it necessary to situate my complaint within the milieu of queer feminism, where I'm at home

[northlighthero]

As one of those 'not-feminine-enough' women who, in my younger days, wanted to go to Detroit and build cars -- and in the 1970s worked as a mechanical engineer -- I dunno as I want to try to comment on this. Except to say, maybe, that sometimes I find myself responding to Southern Belles not so much as 'excessively feminine' as 'hyper-polite.' I mean, for example, that the Texan waitress who glows right into my face as she touches my shoulder and says "Y'all come back and SEE us sometime, y'hear?" is saying the same thing as the New York waiter who says "'avagoo' one" ... but the first grates on my New Englander ear more.

I do have a question -- I'm unfamiliar with the term "cis woman" -- can you translate?

[johanna_hypatia]

Cis is the contrary of trans. It's the word for everyone who isn't trans. You know, the majority. The norm. Considered the default in life so much, there didn't exist a word for it until very recently. Cis people have always been unmarked by not even having a name to describe what they are. The unmarked ones are the dominant, those whose normativity or privilege is taken for granted. Marking (designating by special terms to differentiate from the norm) means subordination.

Cis is Latin for 'on the same side', while trans means 'on the other side'. They always explain this with an example from chemistry, where cis- and trans- are prefixes to tell on what side of a molecule something is.

But I have more of a flair for ancient history, so I think of Cisalpine Gaul-- from Rome's point of view, on the Italian side of the Alps-- versus Transalpine Gaul, on the other side of the Alps, i.e. France.

[northlighthero]

Ah, thank you. I sort of thought that might be its meaning, from context, but couldna parse the derivation.

And this derivation allows another distinction to be seen, which I may not be able to state with appropriate clarity (so please, everyone, understand that I speak as respectfully as I know how).

Within the broad category of "neither male nor female" ... which, I suspect, should really be stated "neither cis-male nor cis-female" ... there is the category of Intersex. Some writers have included in Intersex all who do not identify as 'male' or 'female' even if their genitalia and internal physiognomy are 'normal male' or 'normal female'. Some writers have included in Intersex all-and-only those whose physiognomy (cellular or phenotypic or both) is mixed.

Do we now have a way to speak of 'cis-intersex' and, well, 'trans-intersex' ? And if we do, would this be helpful?

[johanna_hypatia]

That's interesting! I hadn't thought of that before-- but you definitely have a point there. I think I know what you're talking about, though... for example, Zoe Brain is a rocket scientist who's both intersex and trans at the same time.

[tanith_astlik]

There are so many different ways to be feminine. I would think that being female gives you the authority to be your own kind of feminine. I have my kind of femininity, which was considered by some to look boyish, but by others an exotic beauty. I've seen women who are butch and I think they are feminine in their own way, too.

Do they want androgyny? Or is everyone supposed to be like them? And what do they consider themselves in the whole spectrum of being whatever it is that we are?

Yes, please do explain the term "cis woman."

[johanna_hypatia]

I would think that being female gives you the authority to be your own kind of feminine.

I like this. :) You got it right-- a woman's prerogative.

If one spends all one's time queering one's world and fighting oppression in the company of other queer oppression-fighters, it gets to where one constantly feels the need to justify one's very self. Because one's comrades are more than willing to criticize it. Comes with the territory.

Your comment came as a valuable reminder of a basic truth that can kind of get lost in all the struggle.

I have my kind of femininity, which was considered by some to look boyish, but by others an exotic beauty. I've seen women who are butch and I think they are feminine in their own way, too.
Yes--there's room for infinite variety. Room for everyone to be themselves without feeling cramped. Let's have more human diversity, not less

[crafting_change]

I think also the anti-femme folks are also of the thought that if we accepted the 'spectrum' (to which, high-femme isn't usually present) that we 'wouldn't have trans folks' - which then obviously ignores the gender/sex seperation.

[johanna_hypatia]

If it were up to me, I'd think this old world had room enough for both the middle of the spectrum and the endpoints. Without taking away from anyone's right to be who they are.

[crafting_change]

thats because you respect folks sense of agency :p

and I agree with you of course

[tanith_astlik]

Exactly.

Thanks for explaining "cis." :)