bechdel music test?

[jlh]

So my friend calloocallay recently mentioned something about a musical Bechdel test, about finding songs about a third person woman whom the singer didn't either want to sleep with or do away with (I presume as a romantic rival?). So of course I had to try and see if it held up through an entirely unscientific survey of my iTunes

Comments

[honestys_easy]

I love this post.

There's also Stevie Wonder's Isn't She Lovely, which is about a female's beauty, but not in the romantic sense. Does that count?

Now I'm going through my playlist to find some, lol. Aerosmith's Janie's Got A Gun?

[jlh]

A friend of mine wonders if relatives should count. Take out moms and babies and lovers and you don't have a lot of songs about women full stop, but then, take out dads and sons and lovers and you don't have a lot of songs about men either.

[titanic_days]

Interesting experiment. I'm tempted to try it.

The Beatles seem to pop up a lot, which I guess must reflect something about the period they were writing in, in that there seem to have been a few bands doing these well-observed 'slice of life' type songs in the Sixties.

For that reason I'd hazard a guess the Kinks would probably get a couple of songs in there too, 'Dedicated Follower of Fashion', in the guys' section maybe? It's borderline because I've always felt the man they're singing about is sort of sexualised.

In 'Let it Be' I always just assumed Paul was singing about the Virgin Mary :(

[jlh]

Everyone does think he means the Virgin Mary, and I think he allows the ambiguity, if that makes sense.

Lowell feels that relatives shouldn't count which would leave out a lot of this list but Emily followed up and said that second person songs should count, so that changes things somewhat. But then we're back to the idea that most popular songs are about intimate relationships, and even when they are about a character the songwriter tends to write about the character in the first person, rather than observed third person.

But yeah, these story songs, they seem to have gone right out.

[heidi8]

The Kinks' Come Dancing is about the snger's sister, and the singer's role is relatively small, just as an observer of her.

[calloocallay]

So, my friend Trisha just said a song about a woman and the woman the song is about cannot be the person singing the song, so I think that would definitely include the 2nd person! And I think we should probably call it the Trisha test or something because I doubt Bechdel knows about it.

[jlh]

Then I think we're back to the problem I thought I'd find when I started looking, namely that most songs are about intimate and often sexual relationships, no matter what the gender is of the person singing or being observed. With the original Bechdel test you can see the massive gender differences. With this Trisha test, I'm not seeing much of a difference. But that might be the music I listen to, which is mostly pop, rock, and soul.

Lowell thinks that familial relationships shouldn't count which would knock out a lot of the list as well. But yeah, not finding a ton of second or third person nonsexualized men in the songs in my own iTunes.

Going through my collection

[heidi8]

I love this survey! HA, MacArthur Park. But yes, running into the same issue with third person songs.

A few more Neil Finn songs In Third Person About Ladies - Hello, Sandy Allen, who isn't even a relative; Hole in the River, and I think also Catherine Wheels might count if you read the "whose needs do I serve" as the singer quoting the "she" who the song is about. Sandy Allen is only third-person in parts, but only the first verse really references the singer.

From Squeeze, Annie Get Your Gun is third person, and Pulling Mussels from a Shell is third person about a bunch of people, except for the "I feel like William Tell" bit. The first two thirds of Aztec Camera's Good Morning Britain is also third person about a bunch of people.

Everything But the Girl's Sugar Finney is about Marilyn Monroe, fwiw. And I know I have more but nothing is coming to mind and I have to run and get Middle Child. But it's something that's going to be on my mind as I listen to things for the immediate future!

Re: Going through my collection

[jlh]

So Lowell is feeling like relatives shouldn't count. Since I'm still not sure what the original test was supposed to be testing, I kind of can't say.

But if it was to say that men in songs are presented as non-sexual objects and women as sexual objects, that doesn't play out in the songs that I have. Everyone is a romantic partner, for the most part, because that's what most popular songs are about. This might be different in non-pop/soul/standards/rock songs, though.