Pirates of Dark Water... [SPOILERS! FOR DOCTOR WHO SERIES 8, EPISODE 11]

[jjpor]

...was a fairly whacked-out cartoon they used to show on Children's BBC back in the early 90s. It was about this alien planet (I assume) where there was, well, a lot of ocean. A bit like Earthsea or somewhere. And pirates. And "dark water", which was like this Lovecraftian abomination from the Beyond, one part oil slick one part The Blob, which was

Comments

[akashasheiress]

I don't know if you read my (brief) thoughts on the Reveal* but, oh well, here they are ;):http://akashasheiress.livejournal.com
/653042.html

I should probably do that thing on gender identity theory on Gallifrey-post sometime soon. There are so many watsonian theories I'd like to air on the subject. Wee, using my education for useful purposes. ;D

Oh, and you wouldn't be the only one who'd curse the day Moffat was born if Missy had turned out to be Romana! And not only do I think El Mofferino was toying with us, I think the Master may well have been toying with the Doctor, too. You know, hit him where it hurts. D:

*Or if you did and found them too nitpicky and paranoid. ;D

[jjpor]

No, I think you're pretty much bang on the money with what you say about the likely handling of a female Doctor, and indeed some of the unfortunate implications of a female Master. Although previously RTD didn't exactly soft-pedal the innuendoes in his portrayal of the Doctor/Master relationship, I do think things like the kissing joke or Missy openly calling the Doctor her "boyfriend" wouldn't necessarily have happened with a male Master, for a number of different reasons, some worrying, some possibly born out of a misguided sense of well-meaning.

I think the Gallifreyan gender identity thing you were talking about is pretty much the most sensible take on the whole subject, so share away.

Curse the day Moffat was born? I was cursing the day his great-great grandfather was born! ;D

[akashasheiress]

Of course, I doubt Moffat himself thought too deeply about the gender-identity/politics thing when deciding the gender of Gomez!Master (he likely just thought it was time for a Time Lord to do that), and there is a perfectly doylist explanation as to why the Doctor and other on-screen Time Lords haven't been known to alternate their gender, but there's not much fun in that, is there? ;) So, basically, I'm thinking that the majority of of Time Peeps tend to regenerate into the sex they were born with, like, 98% of the time (estimate pulled out of my backside, obviously), but that there is a minority that does. This could obviously also be due to Gallifrey having similar equality-related issues to Earth. They're definitely not without sexism (again, never mind the doylist explanation

[dbskyler]

I absolutely get your reaction to the possibility of evil!Romana. I would definitely have not been happy with that development either, and I too was worried about it at that point. (And that was totally Moffat's plan for us Classic fans, with his deliberately deceptive wording!)

by this point in their association and after all the things his "best enemy" has done, the Doctor showing any emotion towards the Master/Mistress more positive than dull horror/pity/sadness would be somewhat unbelievable.

Yes, given that way back in "Logopolis" the Doctor could barely even shake his hand, I just don't see it believably happening either. But I've read a fanfic or two where the author obviously holds a different view. ; )

[jjpor]

Oh yeah, he knew what he was doing alright... Grr.

;D

Well, fanfic exists in its own fanfictional continuum; I indulge some things I encounter in fanfic that I'd not countenance on't telly - but yeah, it seems that at some point after the Master failed to blow up Gallifrey and frame the Doctor for the President's assassination, he just stopped finding the Master even a little bit amusing - wonder why?

[clocketpatch]

1. When she said, "I'm the Time Lady you abandoned." My first thoughts were Evil!Romana? Nooooooo.... though I suppose it could've been done okay if she was working to restore Gallifrey/wasn't actually evil/was secretly fighting the 3W people. My next thought was Susan, which, after the kiss, made me gag quietly for a bit. I was glad when the Master reveal which everyone was expecting happened

[dbskyler]

the Master's immediate switch to female pronouns.

Well, to be fair, we don't know how long the Master has been female. Perhaps she's had a few centuries to get used to it.

[clocketpatch]

Good point. And, like I crack!theorized above... I think Missy and Clara have some connection.

[justice_turtle]

The only time I've written a Time Lord/Lady (the Doctor, in my case) who regenerates into a body of a different physical sex than all their previous bodies, I think I headcanoned that Gallifreyans seldom or never have any innate gender identity -- it would be such a pain to deal with, if you had a fifty-fifty chance of acute gender dysphoria after every regen. Much easier to be agender or genderfluid as the norm.

[livii]

I wasn't spoiled for the Cybermen! I don't watch trailers, or promo material, or spend time online anywhere Who-ish other than LJ and occasional tumblr, so. It was great. (I missed the elevator bit somehow, too. So it was a great, great reveal. I love Cybermen).

I was half-praying it would be the Rani, just for something a little different? I mean, I knew of course it was the Master since her first appearance, but I was hoping. Haven't been crazy about how they've used the Master in New Who.

[jjpor]

Well, I'm very glad for you. :) Seriously, though, I think that the double Cybermen-Master cliffhanger at the end of the episode would have been one for the ages if I'd managed to remain unspoiled for either of them. So that might be something I can try for next series (although I know I won't manage it - I lack your internet discipline).

The Rani would have been interesting, especially if they'd stuck to her original characterisation as an amoral/unethical scientist rather than going full-supervillain with her. I suspect she doesn't have enough recognition value with the primarily new series audience for her identity to be used as a big plot point in its own right...although the same is probably true of Romana, but I wasn't thinking straight on that issue...

[liadtbunny]

Ah 'Pirates of Dark Water' I vaguely remember it. Very vaguely!

Yes, Moffat had me going there thinking evil!Romana for a minute. I did think maybe Missy was the evil side of Clara or something so your Valeyard theory might not be crackpot. I thought Missy being The Master was too obvious and boring, but Moffat thought not!?

I didn't like the kiss either - oh no not another joke kiss (prob me being grumpy & suspicious other than any real reason).

Not keen on the darkness - ended up being triggering for real life events (note plural) in my life:/

The Master is indestructible - FACT! At last there are fans who are more seive-headed than me\o/

[jjpor]

It was kind of freaky, as I remember it. The main baddie had this enormous ship with, like, dragons on it. I mean, on board it. Or something like that

[akashasheiress]

Well, I'm personally hoping for Good!Juliet Landau!Romana saving the day this Saturday! Fat chance, but a girl can dream. ;D

[liadtbunny]

Thank you for the sympathy, shame Moffat don't bother to look where the fine line was. Personally I think of Doctor Who as a sort of all ages show and shouldn't really be getting too dark or have the relationships get too dysfunctional. I don't consider DW to be a none more black comedy or a show for adults only where I would expect something near the edge. But I'm sure many disagree with me!