Yes Angel killing Connor is wrong in so many ways, that the consequences of this, was in the end fairly good is another case. A thing that marks Angel actions as deeply morally suspect, is that he uses the same methods and reasoning’s for his actions, as that season big bad Jasmine. He takes away Connor possibilities for making choices and creates a happy (false) world for what a perfect life for a normal boy should. And I do find Angels actions deeply egocentric, this is not about Connor, this is about Angel who wants to create a perfect child, that he could really love (from the distance). Instead of trying to heal the deeply damaged real Connor, which might or might not be possible. I should probably mention that I really did like this plot development; it was very much in character for Angel to make the choices he did.
If you are interested could check one of the first post I made on lj that is about Connor and Angel
I didn't even think about the Angel-Jasmine connection in what they did. It's very true. They were done differently, but the results are the same. Ignorance is bliss.
Big word on Angel's egocentric-ness. I also think that his "rejection" of Connor is, in a way, part of his deep-seeded self-loathing. Angel feels he is not capable of providing what Connor needs. But the truth is, he's EXACTLY what Connor needs.
Yes! ITA with what you have said about the memory wipe and especially about Connor and Angel's relationship. At the same time, this was completely in character for Angel. He has made a career of making decisions for other's good without questioning what they would want or if he is depriving them of opportunities for growth by taking the choics out of their hands. This may be due his 18th century sense of "protectiveness" and/or growing up in a time when men automaticly made all the decisions for women and children; or it may just be an aspect of Angel's personality. In any event, he frequently seems to operate under the assumption that he knows "best". He did it twice with Buffy; informing her he was leaving "for her own good" right after graduation, and by assuring she would never remember their perfect day in IWRY. He seemed to have no compunction about violating her mind for her own good then, so it was natural that he take the same approach with Connor.
Very well-written and thought-provoking. I enjoyed reading your
Not only does he violate Connor's memories, but he does it to everyone around him. There is no reason for this other than the fact I think the Fang Gang would have had a problem with what he did.See, I don't think Angel really thought what he was doing was wrong. I think he decided that Connor was so psychologically damaged that given the opportunity to make it "right" he jumped at the chance. I think Angel felt guilty for allowing Holtz to take Connor to Quortoth in the first place; not only did he fail to stop him, but he expressely gave his permission when he saw it as the choice of Holtz raising him or W&H killing him. When Angel saw the job Holtz had made of it, I think he felt deep guilt--of the kind that a person would feel who thought they were giving their baby up for adoption to a "better home" and then discovering later that their child had been molested or abused
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To quote Cordelia in "You're Welcome": "So, not only did you strike a deal with your worst enemy to give up your son, you let them rape the memories of your friends who trust you?"
Cordelia is a pretty good judge of Angel. Angel struck a deal with his worst enemy to abandon his son guilt-free. But, given that Angel is a TERRIBLY guilty person, he must have thought that abandoning his son in such a way was wrong.
Also, I think if Wes, Fred, Gunn and Lorne knew WHY Angel joined Wolfram and Hart, they probably wouldn't have been so quick to. As demonstrated by Wes in "Origin", he was quite upset to find out only part of the story.
You're right, both Angel and Angelus are terribly manipulative. Angel likes to be in control. I think Connor was the one thing in his life Angel couldn't control. Using the memory spell on him gives him a control. He makes Connor this perfect little life and he knows Connor will be safe. And that's enough. But it's not real.
Well, I posted the address for the Nyazian Prophecies above. But here is it again
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yeah, i think it's way out of step, also. it was the easy way out. it makes things easier for the writers after all the craziness of season 4 to just go with the mindwipe... instant memories are a good out for lots of shows, think of Dawn. not to mention soap operas. i think it's definitely not quite heroic and redeemy for Angel to go that route if he really wanted Connor to be a champion. but then again, maybe making the total wrong choice is a good character development for Angel. i find it way more believable that he makes bad choices and screws things up than if he always did the heroic thing, especially with people he cares about. he wanted to make everything easier on Connor, much easier than they should have been. i think this go righted in season 5 when Wes and Illyria found out what had happened, and i think they should have gotten way more pissed off at Angel than they did--my main qualm was, if he's going to go ahead and screw around with Connor, that's that. but why change everyone's memories? maybe that was just the ev0l
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I think the reason Wes and Illyria weren't more pissed is because:
(1) Illyria didn't really give a crap about Fred's memories. (2) Wes was too distracted by his own guilt to be angry at Angel.
I personally think Angel chose to go the whole nine and erase everyone's memories is because he KNEW what he was doing was wrong. And they would have pointed it out to him. They may not have been big fans of Connor, but they wouldn't have wanted him removed from the picture like that.
Eh, not a huge fan of Connor/Dawn myself. Even though Dawn is only two years younger, she seems a lot younger than he is. I think he needs someone more mature.
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I should probably mention that I really did like this plot development; it was very much in character for Angel to make the choices he did.
If you are interested could check one of the first post I made on lj that is about Connor and Angel
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Big word on Angel's egocentric-ness. I also think that his "rejection" of Connor is, in a way, part of his deep-seeded self-loathing. Angel feels he is not capable of providing what Connor needs. But the truth is, he's EXACTLY what Connor needs.
Ooh! More Congel essays!
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Very well-written and thought-provoking. I enjoyed reading your
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Cordelia is a pretty good judge of Angel. Angel struck a deal with his worst enemy to abandon his son guilt-free. But, given that Angel is a TERRIBLY guilty person, he must have thought that abandoning his son in such a way was wrong.
Also, I think if Wes, Fred, Gunn and Lorne knew WHY Angel joined Wolfram and Hart, they probably wouldn't have been so quick to. As demonstrated by Wes in "Origin", he was quite upset to find out only part of the story.
You're right, both Angel and Angelus are terribly manipulative. Angel likes to be in control. I think Connor was the one thing in his life Angel couldn't control. Using the memory spell on him gives him a control. He makes Connor this perfect little life and he knows Connor will be safe. And that's enough. But it's not real.
Well, I posted the address for the Nyazian Prophecies above. But here is it again ( ... )
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(1) Illyria didn't really give a crap about Fred's memories.
(2) Wes was too distracted by his own guilt to be angry at Angel.
I personally think Angel chose to go the whole nine and erase everyone's memories is because he KNEW what he was doing was wrong. And they would have pointed it out to him. They may not have been big fans of Connor, but they wouldn't have wanted him removed from the picture like that.
Eh, not a huge fan of Connor/Dawn myself. Even though Dawn is only two years younger, she seems a lot younger than he is. I think he needs someone more mature.
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