I'm alive! :D And I come bearing meta!

[isilienelenihin]

Not that there was ever really a chance or situation that would have made me dead, but I've been absent for a while.  Those of you who don't have the misfortune of being my facebook/tumblr friends have missed me griping about how much I hate moving.  I absolutely loathe it.  I even wrote a haiku on the subject, but I think it's been passed around

Comments

[kelkat9]

High fives you on the River rant. I love the idea of River Song's character but feel that the development was mishandled. I will never write her as Moffat does. In my mind, she is so much cooler than that. Yeah, I've been watching over at tumblr about the Eleven carrying Amy thing. I hate that picture. Although I have some issues with Amy's character, she is tough and can be a strong heroine if Moffat would just let her!!!! River Song is the daughter of Amy and Rory and her strength came from them. I guess it's just Moffat's style but it bugs me.

Nods head at Rose assessment. Interesting, I never thought of the parallel of her carrying the unconscious Doctor vs him carrying unconscious Amy. Very interesting assessment.

Sighs. End of my rant supporting Izzy's rant.

[isilienelenihin]

I could totally be reading too much into the carrying bit--but I don't think I am. It's so symbolic, as one tumblr user (can't remember the username, gah!) put it, she's the 'companion who got carried away.' I loved the bit in 'Amy's Choice' when she turned to the Doctor (after he confessed to not being able to save Rory) and asked 'then what is the point of you?' Such a great line. And the bit in 'The Wedding of River Song' when she kills Madam Kovarian (in an aborted time-line which then allows Moffat to reset her character back to baseline and which I'm also rewriting because she EARNED that experience, damnit. She should get to keep it). When she tells Kovarian that the Doctor isn't there, and that River Song didn't get all of her awesomeness from the Silence, that bit is classic.

Most of my point is that the emotions/thought patterns surrounding the Doctor in reference to River are SO COMPLEX and would be so interesting to explore! And we don't get that. We don't get that at all.

[fogsblue]

Yay for a happy move for you!! :)

Now the meta...
My reply will be short cause, my brain is not really working. But I agree, River had potential to be a great character (even if I didn't like her much in SitL/FotD, I can admit that) but then she got Moffat'ed. Now there is absolutely nothing I really like about her character and the story between her and the Doctor grates on me. It just isn't remotely believable. She's obsessed rather than in love from what I can tell and there has been no suggestion he loves her beyond the affection he has for any companion.

(I might have lied on the short thing).
Never really considered the carrying thing. But there's a point about companions there. I often felt like Amy has been 'carried' by Eleven or Rory. But that's a whole different thing.

I admit, the comment about 'Who do you think?' annoyed me too. Between Rose and the whole Journey's End crew I just wanted to say "NOT YOU! SOMEONE ELSE ALWAYS DOES IT FOR YOU!"

[isilienelenihin]

YES EXACTLY. He couldn't bring himself to kill the Daleks so someone else gets saddled with the job! And then he has the nerve to lecture them! Hello Doctor, I'm the pot, and you're an awfully dark kettle. (I say that to my husband and he looks at me like I'm nuts, British slang, what have you done to my language? XP

[fogsblue]

I actually quite like the idea of River/Jack and now that you've suggested it, I must say I'm liking the idea of River/Jenny... But I don't like Rive/Doctor in the least.

The armada gif? I need it too, I keep forgetting to snag it from anyone...

And exactly! The image of Amy being carried is a complete representation of the women Moffat writes. They always seem to be waiting or getting carried, metaphorically or literally by a man or men in their life. Compare that to Rose, Martha or Donna, hell even Jackie and Francine tend to be 'carrying' others. Some of the one shot companions too, such as Astrid.

Ok, done ranting/agreeing with ranting now :P

[isilienelenihin]

I may or may not be writing a snippet about the first time River meets Jenny

[six]

I don't like the River/Doctor ship either. I think River deserves better than him. idk, I just feel like I've been TOLD more than been showed about this love between River and The Doctor, that I just can't see it.

I always side-eye Moffat a lot because he's ruined my favorite characters so much, I find it difficult to stan them anymore. He can't seem to write female characters without defining them by the men they're with. Rory had a great character arc, growing from a 'companion's companion' to Centurion Rory who kicks butt. Amy and River started out strong with so much potential and slowly became supporting cast. Being sassy and having snappy one-liners =/= characterization, Moffat. Think about it --

Rose Tyler: Defender of the Earth

Martha Jones: Savior of the World

Donna Noble: The Most Important Woman in the Universe

Amy Pond: The Girl Who Waited

River Song: Child of the TARDIS

-_-

[isilienelenihin]

I know! He totally demeans them, and he keeps them in the (subordinate and helpless) position of children. River Song is not a girl. River song is DEFINITELY a woman and if you don't believe her she will be more than happy to show you. XP And Amy Pond deserves to be known for more than her ability to hold on to her childhood imaginary friend. It's more than okay to show her growing emotionally--as long as she keeps pace with her husband!

Personally, I love Rory, but I want Amy to get the same amount of growth. And River--we need to explore her character more, but the way Moffat writes her just makes me want to ignore her all together.

[six]

Me too. I like to ignore canon!River and just live with my headcanon to keep me sane. XD And oOoOoooo! I like the idea of Jenny/River and Jack/River. Anyone but the Doctor/River has been my River ship really, but I really really like these two ships for her now. Thanks for that! :D

[isilienelenihin]

I posted a bit of 'By the Wayside,' and the predominate romantic pairing is River/Jenny. I don't think that River/Jack would be very serious--they're both fun, and they're both not really looking for a serious relationship when they meet. Plus, I think it's going to happen in the two yeas that Jack forgot, and I may have him 'forgetting' be the result of River wiping his mind, as he wasn't supposed to find out about her yet. And then they meet again when he goes Rogue and it's so bittersweet for her, but for him it's all new. And then I know I've got them meeting in 'Meet me at the Crossroads' which is fairly early for her.

Timey-wimey universe makes keeping track of things interesting. XP I should probably plot out everyone's timeline, but I'm lazy.

Oops, Spoilers. XP

[isilienelenihin]

It makes him DANGEROUS. I'd like to point out that River Song (or Melody Pond, and are they two different people or is it just another name? I'd like to posit that River Song is who she wants to be, while Melody Pond is who she used to be) would be incredibly wary of anyone who knows so much about her--considering that the Doctor has said that after regenerating he has no idea what sort of a man he is (outside of the deepest and most basic things--like that he loves Rose).

I think it would be strange and disturbing to meet someone who knows you better than you know yourself. And then there's the problem that she basically tells him she loves him when they first meet, so he's got that expectation going. Did they fall in love really, or does he HAVE to love her in order to complete a causality loop? It's just way to contrived.

I may end up rewriting a great deal of season 7, depending on how they end Amy and Rory's time as companions.

[isilienelenihin]

YES EXACTLY.

I don't believe their romance at all. SHOW DON'T TELL, and PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN apply wonderfully here.

The Doctor can be extremely manipulative, and I love when people explore that darker side, but to me the whole of seasons 5 and 6 just feel too convoluted. They're overly complex, as in complexity for complexity's sake and not because it adds anything to the show.

[develish1]

I don';t have anything to add, but I did leave you the armada gif up there ↑ lol

[isilienelenihin]

And thank you very much! I couldn't find it for the life of me. >.

[develish1]

you're welcome :)

I think I stole it from brat originally, no idea where she got it from