cause compare/contrast is what I do best

Feb 23, 2009 12:14


In a thrilling discussion last night thunderemerald and I discussed the need to see how similar River and Echo are. Which, duh, needs to be done. Because when Joss makes two dark-haired graceful crazy girls in his shows, I'm seeing a connection.

DISCUSS. )

tv: dollhouse, meta, tv: firefly, joss whedon

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thunderemerald February 23 2009, 18:58:49 UTC
I don't have any gender studies under the belt, but ya know, you got me thinking AGAIN...

Clearly Joss is fascinated by this idea of a woman who Isn't All There- there's some part of her that's hidden and waiting to break out. A lot of his female characters have this, whether that be a secret strength or a dark side.

...that it's not just River and Echo. River and Echo are what happen when the Powers That Be (usually male, or at least masculine in nature) take too much control and repress the individuality of the woman in question, making her less than herself. Buffy, as we revealed in later seasons, is the opposite side of the same coin: a long line of women who have been "Chosen" to become MORE than themselves, though still not of their own volition. These powers, whoever they are, are almost more insidious, because it's like they're saying, "Look, we love women! We chose one woman in each generation to FIGHT our battles against EVIL because we can't be arsed to do it ourselves!!!1! Aren't we awesome?" But at the root of it ( ... )

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ninamazing February 23 2009, 20:35:05 UTC
YES.

A very lot of YES.

I think in a lot of ways, Joss's female characters show how beaten down women can be by all the restrictions that society puts on them - everything that stands in Buffy's way, or River's way, or Echo's way, comes from a place of misogyny or just plain disrespect for ALL people. And then they break out. And we see what a crime it was to keep them under wraps at all, ever, because they are so frakking amazing it brightens the whole universe by a few degrees.

♥JOSS♥

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thunderemerald February 23 2009, 22:11:06 UTC
YUP. It's like:

Dear Women Everywhere,

You are better than this. All of you. All you have to do is know yourselves.

Love'n'kisses,
Joss

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intrikate88 February 24 2009, 23:56:50 UTC
*AGREES*

And that is one of the major things I love about Joss's shows- how he shows how bright and amazing people are when they stand up and break free from the things that bind them. It makes me love people so much because I want to remember what they are capable of, not just the small petty things that I see that are reactions against repression. Yay for seeing beauty over pain- that's a reason I like Doctor Who, too.

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ninamazing February 23 2009, 20:33:02 UTC
Oh, I totally forgot about "Dress me up like a gorram doll"! ♥

Butyeah, this connection is obvious. I forget who told me this (or if it was even Joss! :P ), but someone said Dollhouse was going to be a continuation of the River Tam story. WHICH I THINK IS AWESOME BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH MORE STORY THERE.

It's definitely Othering. But it's Othering in a good way. A true way. I like how Joss does it, because somehow, he gets women ... or at least women like me. He keeps a part of them hidden and waiting to break out, and then they do break out and it's magnificent and they don't need some man's help to do it, either.

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intrikate88 February 25 2009, 00:05:31 UTC
OOOH. That's so cool that Joss may even be thinking of this as a continuation of River's story. I can definitely see that as kind of another step, another branch- River expelled the demon-knowledge in Serenity, and now there's this blank strong, smart, young woman with so many possibilities. And so many potential dangers ( ... )

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