Clinging Roses and Emasculated Doctors: The Canon and Fanon Criticisms of the Doctor/Rose Ship

[intrikate88]

There are a lot of people out there who don't like Rose. That's okay. Everybody responds differently to characters. Many of these people write meta on why they don't like Rose, and again, that's okay. I've read several of these posts; some of them have made sense, some haven't. Some have seemed to make sense up until the logic is deconstructed to

Comments

[threerings]

Your response is much better than my "BWAH?"

I don't really understand how anyone could see a man needing a woman's input/help/prescence is emasculating. I wonder what kind of men these people know.

[intrikate88]

Well, didn't you know women are weak and emotional, and for a man to bow to that level makes them inferior? And that women are ruled by their feelings and uteruses and if a man needs that sort of help then he is lacking in hearty Man Wisdom? And if a man is devoted to just ONE woman, that limits his virility? And that if he allows a woman's input, that disrupts God's plan of godly male leadership and him being the "high priest of the household"?

Ahem.

For an odd hobby, andi_horton and I study gender roles and relations in fundamentalist Christianity, and contrast those literal, out-of-context readings of scripture with some of the actual themes of equality that are there. And one of the really odd things is that many of the ideas that put down women and elevate men actually are suggested by the women! Knowing that much (I've seen estimates as high as 95%) of fandom is female, it's interesting to see how many of these gender conceptions come through there, too.

[threerings]

You know, this whole thing has made me really angry, not at Who fandom, from whom I expect this level of discourse, but at women in general. *sigh* So much ignorance.

Your hobby sounds like a very interesting and amusing way to spend your time. Not being Christian, I don't have a lot of input, but...the mind boggles.

[intrikate88]

Yeah... well, the thing is, our society still exists on patriarchal power paradigms. Trying to move past those -not just obvious ones, like equal pay and voting rights for women- is difficult and scary, and requires serious critical thinking about the way things work. Understandably, not everyone wants to embrace that.

I did grow up Christian, and have been disappointed in a lot of it by so many of the things I've learned. But I've also learned more about Jesus, through researching some bullshit beliefs, and his teachings are really quite revolutionary in assertions of equality of genders, classes, and races. I think that a lot of modern mainstream Christianity misses the point, but a way of living your life based on treating others with love and equality is worth following, I think.

[kayling]

"Yeah bitches. I just pwned you all like only a English major can."

I envy your ability to write an awesome paper about anything. I'm dreadful at it.

[intrikate88]

I totally just wrote it to procrastinate on writing a paper about The Maltese Falcon, too.

[mrv3000]

Fantastic meta. *This* is the show I've been watching.

[intrikate88]

Your bit of meta on why the Doctor and Rose go together inspired me too, so thanks!

[mrv3000]

:)

[jeonggam]

THANK. YOU.

Finally, some points that make sense.

You make feel a whole lot less annoyed. And also make me want to go and watch Doctor Who. Again. Which is always a good thing.

[intrikate88]

Glad to help! XD

[katesutton]

Thanks for this. While I agree that not liking Rose is a valid response to the show, there's an awful lot of meta out there that pulls criticism from the ether. Use canon examples, please, not just knee-jerk distaste to support your argument.

[intrikate88]

Exactly. Even though fandom meta isn't for a grade at school, that doesn't mean that critical thinking and well-supported arguments aren't still called for. Fandom's kinda informal, but it's kinda peer-reviewed textual criticism, too.