Friday's Open Thread

[korinna]

You're free to comment about anything, whether it relates to the interests of the community or not.

Rules

-No nudity, please.
-If you post pictures, please don't make them so big that people have to side scroll. (If you're unsure about a picture, just link us to it instead.)
-No personal attacks.

Comments

[wake_the_dragon]

I just want to get some advice.

I recently got an X-Box 360 and I'm looking for games to try. Do any of you have suggestions? I'm playing through Dragon Age 2 right now (and I love it so far) if that helps.

Thank you.

[wake_the_dragon]

Thank you!

From how I've seen the diffrences between Origins and DA2 compared, I'm not sure if I'd like Origins.

[anison]

Yeah, if you just can't get enough of Thedas, go ahead and play Origins. But if you want something that actually plays well on a console, skip it. It was a good game, but I think DA2 is vastly superior.

[menkui]

Vastly superior as a console game or in general?

[anison]

Both? Particularly as a console game, though. I always got the feeling while playing Origins that it was a bad console port of a good PC game, and DA2 doesn't feel that way.

I do think it's superior in general, too, kind of like Mass Effect 2 is superior in general to Mass Effect. But ymmv quite a bit on that point based on what you want out of an RPG.

[menkui]

I agree, Origins felt absolutely wrong on the console. The reason, in my opinion, why DA2 fails to live up to the standards Origins set is the fact that it was basically an incomplete game. To me DA2 is very similar to KotOR 2, both were really great ideas with really great characters but because the games were rushed (both were made in a little over a year) the plot suffered as well as the overall gameplay.

[anison]

Funny you bring up KotOR 2, because it's pretty much my favorite game ever despite it's myriad flaws. That's probably why I'm so attached to DA2.

I don't know if it's really fair to compare Origins and DA2... well, of course it is, because one is the direct sequel to the other. My point is that they're really very different games. DA2 isn't really trying to be the same thing that Origins was, both gameplay- and story-wise. That justifiably disappointed a lot of people who liked the Origins formula. I like to think I gave Origins a fair shake--I completed it four times--but I have to conclude that I didn't like the formula, because it felt like a chore every time. Conversely, I feel like I could play DA2 forever.

A lot of it is down to personal preference, though. I found the Origins characters uniformly boring and unlikable, but there are so many Alistair fans that it has to be a ymmv situation. Or I'm just bitter because Alistair broke my heart and I killed my first character to spite him.

[menkui]

I like to think I gave Origins a fair shake--I completed it four times--but I have to conclude that I didn't like the formula, because it felt like a chore every time. Conversely, I feel like I could play DA2 forever.The majority of Orgins is a chore to play through. The main quest, collecting the treaties, was a total bore. Also, I believe Loghain's presence needed to be felt more. I often found myself asking "why are we doing this again?" or "who is the villain?" So, yes, Orgins is far from being a decent game. And even though I love it, mostly due to the characters and the Landsmeet scene, I readily concede it's rather mediocre

[anison]

Then you have DA2, and I do recognize the fact that they were taking the game in a different direction, I wanted them to take it in a different direction (I loathed the gameplay in Origins) but it showed all the signs of a rushed game. Is it possible for a game to be incomplete but still be good? Yes, but I don't think DA2 achieved that.

I guess I don't see where it felt rushed? Except for the last couple plot quests, where I really wish they had two separate tracks based on whether you're pro-templar or pro-mage. That and the bugs, of course.

The only other thing that I can trace directly to lack of time/resources is the small, recycled dungeons, and I actually kind of admire them for taking that risk. I'd like Origins twice as much if the areas in it were half the size that they are.

I hated wandering around all willy-nilly for no particular reason. That's a major faux pas for an rpg in my book. At least you generally don't have to go as far because the areas are smaller? ;) JK, I know what you mean. When the overarching goal

[menkui]

The only other thing that I can trace directly to lack of time/resources is the small, recycled dungeons, and I actually kind of admire them for taking that risk. I'd like Origins twice as much if the areas in it were half the size that they are.It wasn't necessarily a risk, it was something Bioware had to do if they were going to get the game out in a year. But, overall, I'd prefer having a shorter, tighter plot, than to have to repeatedly traverse the same maps over and over and over again. It just made the game drag on for me and during the first act I literally almost returned the game because I was that displeased with it. For me, it's a travesty to have a game which heavily relies on story and characters to be so boring in the beginning (especially since I know a lot of those writers are fellow English majors and they should know how vital the beginning is to keep a player entertained

[anison]

Yeah, but when they recognized that cuts had to be made, they made them in an area where they couldn't be hidden and would almost definitely draw criticism, in order to devote more time to story. That takes guts, in my mind. I do wish they had the time to do everything, but I don't think re-using areas was the world-ending issue some people were acting like it was

[menkui]

Environment plays a huge role in story structure. Think of Charles Dickens', Bleak House and how the house itself was as much a character as Lady Dedlock. When you limit your environment you are also limiting your story. I think they forgot this when they decided to focus so much on story structure, plot and dialogue.

There are quite a few things they could have done to the surrounding environment to keep it fresh and new. It's especially important to change the surroundings in DA2 since 10 years pass in the game. To see how the passage of time affected the townspeople and the environment would have been a great way to add to the story. In fact, the city could have changed drastically depending on the choices you made throughout the years. Sure this would have taken time, but not anywhere near as much as creating a whole new map from scratch. Besides, if KotOR 2 created a whole galaxy in a year I believe Bioware could have shown the affects of time on a country

I do see your point about devoting more time to building up quests, but

[menkui]

The Halo series, Fable 3, Gears of War 1 and 2, Mass Effect 2, or Viva Pinata TiP.

[wake_the_dragon]

Thank you!

[wake_the_dragon]

Thank you!