- - DISCUSSION

[songbird]

I'm not a big believer in fate, or destiny. Sometimes things fall into place, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes the best things that can happen to a person are accidents. But what do you think? Are some things predetermined? Are we the masters of our own fate, or is there something else at hand that ensures some things happen while others don't

Comments

[strings]

I agree, I just think we're always learning. Hopefully absorbing things from every encounter, the good ones and the bad ones. Things can be so different just by the smallest changes and even with my faith I feel like I can see the different paths that could have happen. The most important thing is that we take the path that we ourselves find the most joy in, and do our best to be nice to others. Ah.. Does that make sense? We're guided not lead, we decide where we're going.

[songbird]

There's so many 'maybes' in a life. When there are good things, what do you attribute it to? And bad things? What about all the things out of your hands? What dictates good, or bad outcomes?

It makes sense to me. But I don't know if I believe in the same thing, but I think the key difference between us is your faith. It's a powerful thing, and sometimes I feel envious of it.

[strings]

I attribute it to what's happening. Things are always happening, schedules can be long and you can always be tired. Lately I attribute how happy I feel to the friends I have around me. There's a lot of people who support and love and it makes other things good. When things are out of my hands, that's not exactly clear too. Sometimes you can say there's nothing you can do but you could just be looking too close to the picture. Sometimes you can still manage small things, some times you don't imagine a bad ending but we keep moving. As long as we're alive there's never a loss of hope. Maybe something happens that isn't ideal but as long as at the end of it all I can say I learned something I can't bring myself to wish those memories away.

[songbird]

Then I can say I feel you have a rather healthy view of things. Sometimes things just happen. Good and bad and... well. You can't always tell, in ease and in earnestness, when things are in your hands or our, it just rolls on and so do you. Would you say that your experiences have made you better, or bitter?

[jeonjiji]

In some sense, I think that things can be seen to be fated? Not because there's some greater force pushing us in one direction, but more because... of other arrangements. Like someone not doing well at something, not because they're fated not to, but rather because they didn't have the ability for it. You're right, though, we'd never know if there's something out there moving us like pieces on a chess board, haha. Even so, it's not right to think that way. "Things will work out the way God wants anyway, so we shouldn't force things." No, we still have to work hard. It's our own life and we should have control, or at least the determination to give ourselves control.

I think this is the first time I've seen you post a discussion, Gayoonie! >u>

[songbird]

Some things yes, some things not. But how would you ever know? What's in our hands, and what isn't, sometimes it's clear but sometimes I feel like the control we think we have is nothing but an illusion. But it's as Taemin-sshi said above. Some people are lead. I guess faith makes things seem so much simpler in terms of how we deal with the uncontrolled variables in our life. Like, you believe that things will turn out for the better and if not that there must be logic behind it.

Sometimes I just think that there's no logic, no reasoning, bad things just happen because they do.

... I was thinking that too. First time for everything... right...? :3

[jeonjiji]

Yeah, I do think that fate and destiny is something that people believe strongly in so that they can deal with the bad things that happen, but I still believe more in coincidence and reason. Once you believe too strongly that there's someone or something pulling the strings, I feel that people start letting themselves go, telling themselves that things will happen a certain way anyway. But more than anything I think I'm just stubborn to think this way because I like knowing that I'm in control of my own life. I'd rather blame myself for things than something else, because at least then I'd improve that way.

Just don't make it the last time. :B

[songbird]

Logic's such a strange thing. We can try our best to provide intelligence and reason to anything but there are circumstances where it's simply impossible. You need to keep a level head, and that's why... well, I love you. Because you manage to do that readily yourself. You can manage to do most anything when you have the determination and the realization that you have a direct hand in all that goes on within your life. For better or for worse.

... 3| but people. Urgh.

[shintaeho]

This is a really deep question, sunbaenim...!

Hm. For me, because I believe in God, I think it's a little of both. ^_^" I don't really believe in predestination exactly, though!! I don't think that God put us here and had a plan all written out, like, "Today, on the 24th of July, Shin Taeho will do this." But I also think that there are some things in our lives which aren't accidents. Not exactly destiny, but... more like, those times when you think, "Wow, it's really amazing that I was in exactly this moment at exactly this time, so that something could happen."

I hope that makes sense! I feel like I rambled a little... ^_^""

[songbird]

Is it? I just was thinking the other day~ the right conversations bring out the right kind of thoughts, don't you think?

Sometimes I feel like the only non-believer here, but I'm curious about what motivates your faith in him. What helps your believe? What makes you think that this is because of God and that there are things that aren't him at all. How do you feel when bad things happen, is that him as well?

No, I like this a lot :3

[shintaeho]

I think so too

[songbird]

It's not a bad thing if you opinion on God or whatever you choose to believe in changes with age. After all, we're all trained to follow the beliefs of our parents until we actually begin to experience things on our own. They're the template from which we all work off of, no? Now when you look at these things from which you grew up knowing, how do you feel about it all? It's a learning experience, right? Bad things happen, and so do good things. The last point is one that I like to bring up sometimes... because that's what I truly don't get. Why believe if... well

[gogigui]

I'm a strong believer of having your fate in your own hands. If you're going to sit around and wait for things to happen, it's very likely they won't. You create your own life with hard work, determination and going for what you want. Of course that's not a guarantee to anything because you're not alone, there are other people too which can help you along the way or prevent things from happening. So I don't think it's fate or anything like that, it's coexistence. Surely there are things that would make you wonder why they happened but instead of wondering about it, it's better to just enjoy it and not take it for granted.

[songbird]

It's good to hear someone else feeling that there is a lot that you're able to do that much more yourself. That's good. I think that mostly we are able to do things and construct our own fate and future. Fate is kind of just... well, it's just a term we're using to explain away the recourse for our own actions. We're the ones that make things happen, or not happen. There are elements that just aren't there for anyone to control, but you just.. .react. And work with it. If you can't roll with the punches, then you shouldn't be blaming someone, something, else for that.

... Basically, I like your view.

[gogigui]

I feel like people shouldn't point to these "higher powers" as a reason for things happen, everyone is free to think what they want but I feel like you're underestimating yourself and people when you do so. We have more power than a lot of people think. I guess it's not an easy thing to realize sometimes, but I hope more people will.

[songbird]

Exactly. I feel a little put out when someone tells me that something's happening because of... well. That reason. It just seems so disjointed from the reality to which I subscribe. But my beliefs aren't any more relevant then theirs. Everyone has their own opiate. But I'm with you. There's so much more a person can do for themselves then they're ever willing to typically do.

[eyedimple]

I think that we run upon chances almost constantly. Karma hands you a blank sheet of paper but what you put down on it is up to you and the plenty of co-authors that walk in and out of your life. Frankly speaking, I believe that we are all destined to write our stories of choice, chance and opportunity but how we write them depends on where we look for inspiration.

[songbird]

This is beautifully put. We are the result of our collective experiences with not only ourselves but with those around us and the world at large. There are things, though, such as... deaths, births, accidents, scribbles on this blank slate that happen, and I wonder sometimes why it is that people look at these things in such different ways. But then again. They're just reacting in the way that they've come to understand how to.

[eyedimple]

Why it is that people look at these things in such different ways? I don't know the answer to that ..but what I know is that if we all reacted alike it would be a huge number of books telling the same story over and over again.