Love and Marriage

[iamo]

So Nancy and I went to a wedding yesterday. A big, all-day, grand affair with five course meal, open bar, lots of dancing, etc. It put me in mind of how my feelings about relationships and marriage have evolved over the years. Nancy and I were married just over 8 years ago (8 years as of June) and it's been interesting. We married young, compared

Comments

[iamo]

The thing is, I see so many other reasons why someone would want those benefits that have nothing to do with whether they love or have sex with each other. I don't know why you can't just sign a form that says "yep, that person gets these rights with regards to me" and it not mattering whether you're married.

The thing is, this is a compromise that loses too much ground from all sides. From a queer perspective, it looks like a final statement that gay marriage devalues the institution to the point that the religious don't want it anymore. From the religious side, they lose what they see as a valued protection for their beliefs. Possibly the last protection left in the modern era.

As much as it's a win-win for everybody, somehow it becomes a lose-lose for the groups most engaged in the debate.

[iamo]

(where groups are distinct in their behaviours and desires from individuals)

[shasplim]

I like your cultural reading of the changing shape of marriage in the past 8 years.

Also, hurray for the non-traditional marriage! My wife and I have been open since long before we got married 9 years ago (she's bi too, incidentally). It's not always easy, but if everyone can be honest and generous, it's a pretty terrific arrangement.

Can I get past your poly filter? :)

[iamo]

For us it was definitely something that came about after we got married. There was an incident, before we even moved in together, where she had an opportunity for a relationship with another girl and at the time the idea of an open relationship didn't even enter our heads. It was very much a difficult dilemma for us, and looking back on it was a big factor in opening up the relationship.

Actually, I seem to have already put you there. I tend to put new people there by default just because I'd rather be open about it in so far as I can without having it permanently tied to my career in a public forum. Which is why my real name isn't on my LJ and I don't use this username anywhere else. Really I'm not actually sure how necessary the filter is anymore. I have "in an open relationship" as my facebook relationship status.

[afterthree]

I'm not sure as yet how I feel about marriage in general. Certainly there are legal benefits, but it's never factored very high on my list of Things I Must Do Before I Die. Whether or not I ever do get married would probably factor largely on whether or not whomever I partner with feels strongly enough about it. Certainly there would be a lot of pressure from my parents and extended family to adhere to cultural norms.

If I'm not already, I'd like to be on your poly filter. You and Nancy are (to my knowledge) the only people I know who are polyamorous, and since it's something I'm open to in my own life it would be great to feel comfortable talking with other people about it. :D

[iamo]

I definitely get the vibe from you and your sister that your parents would create that pressure. For us there wasn't actually any overt pressure, it was more expectations we'd built up in our own minds of what our parents wanted. In fact, when we told them we wanted to get married, but it would be a really really small ceremony, my mom was relieved she wouldn't have to go through another wedding like my sister's

[ali_kira]

I appreciate learning your views on the matter. I know quite a few polyamorous couples (and at least half of those that I know well these days are married or intending to become married) and I was always curious as to what particular values these individuals placed in their marriage. These tend to vary quite significantly, from what I've noticed

[iamo]

Our wedding wasn't in a church and having it in one wasn't even really an option in any way, shape, or form. We may have had the idea of marriage = normal banged into our heads at that point, but the religious angle wasn't there at all for us even so.

Interestingly, I also want to create a family. But for some reason, it's a family of adults in close relationships that I really crave (but often have a lot of difficulty forming). As an abstract concept having children kind of appeals to me, but in practice it just can't work for me in the foreseeable future. Partly because of Nancy's aforementioned desire to not be an incubator, but for career stability and home size reasons as well.

I agree with you about the idea that relationship structures are deeply personal. I've heard it said that there are as many types of poly as people practicing it, but I think that can be generalized to all relationships.

Out of curiosity, are any of those poly people you know in Edmonton? We know a few, but not very many, ourselves.

[beans_etc]

Oh, and it's a hell of a lot easier to dance at a party where you don't know anyone there.

Horrible LIES. I break out into spontaneous dance in lots of places (at home, at friends' houses, at the office -- as you've seen repeatedly before, and even occasionally at the bus stop, though that's usually nothing more than a shivery jig to go along with my "oh god oh god I'm cold cold cold c'mon bus bus bus bus" song.) But if I'm not with people I know and am comfortable being an idiot around, I tend to keep my ass firmly in a chair.

Personally I'm in favor of marriage and (Mason willing) will have one myself one day, if not for the obvious legal conveniences that the little piece of paper grants, but I also for the ritualistic feeling of the whole thing. I want to wear a fancy white dress, and I want to say vows and exchange rings, and I obviously want the big giant and beautifully decorated (chocolate!) cake. I enjoy cultural traditions like marriage; and while I don't agree with all the religious values and conservative beliefs

[iamo]

No one would ever doubt your romantic inclinations towards marriage hah. I remember Nathan's camping trip the first year, where the subject of marriage came up, and I described my proposal to Nancy. You looked at me like I was an alien. Frankly, I'm shocked you and Mason aren't already married or at least engaged. :P

I think I've actually decided to not use the poly filter anymore and just friend lock posts about it. I'm more open about it now than I was when I created the filter. But I added you to my flist so you can see them. And also not have to enter captchas and then complain about it in my comments. ;)