Watching a kerfluffle bud and bloom

[huzzlewhat]

This has been a very, very interesting experience. This is the first time that I've actually seen the first post in a kerfluffle - usually I come in a few days or weeks later, wandering in with a completely clueless, "Hey guys! What's going on?" This time, though, I was at ground zero, and actually posted a response to the post. And then I got a

Comments

[huzzlewhat]

Oh, I think I might have a teeny crush on your dad now. *g*

Hee! Well, balance it with all the ways he isn't the wisest man I know. Like living in Montana and deciding that October is the best time to tear out all the windows in the living room. :-)

And I couldn't agree more with this statement if my life depended on it:

And yet, I've just been defriended because of it. I think I might have struck a nerve with a Paul Revere type. ::shrugs:: I find myself overwhelmed by not caring very much.

[mskatej]

Smallville fandom is made of fail. I know my post probably caused more of a stink than Sana's did, but NO ONE EVER SAID WHAT PEOPLE ARE CLAIMING WE SAID. *sobs*

[juxtoppozed]

Kate, don't blame yourself for the severe dearth of reading comprehension. *No one* could ever be responsible for that much sheer Stupid. It's stuff like this that momentarily brings out the elitist in me, wishing I could devise some way of having people take a rudimentary logic test (and...pass) before proceeding on to read the entry.

[mskatej]

I did not see this coming at all. I mean, I have to admit, I used the word "racist" in my post to make sure people READ your post. Because I think your post is *important*. I cannot believe that not only have the majority of people misunderstood it (despite the fact that it is extremely clear and EASY TO UNDERSTAND) we now have people in the fandom deliberately going out of their way to call Lana "The Squirrel".

I just. I can't cope.

[juxtoppozed]

Yeah, this...has taught me about how naive I still am. I was just saying that I expected most people to ignore it, and hoped that some of the same eloquent, sane people I respect always would offer some of their own insights. That was the extent of my hopes for that entry. And I made it as clear as possible what I wanted people to consider.

Don't get me wrong, this won't stop me from talking about issues that I care about. Not in the least. But I think some of the violently defensive reactions made me incredibly jaded about what to expect in the future. I've seen some of it wrt fictional-character debates, but I thought people would be more considerate to each other when it involves a Real Life issue.

we now have people in the fandom deliberately going out of their way to call Lana "The Squirrel". How mature. You know, this brings into sharp relief a lot of other issues they might have. I've already seen people claim that if you care about this issue, then it *must* be that 1) you're not an advocate "in real life" and 2) you don't

[juxtoppozed]

I've said this before but...I think I love you. That is the crux of the problem, and really any contentious issue I've ever tried to initiate discussion: that goddamn strawman. He's a crutch, I tell you and it's so frustrating it's given me migraines sometimes. I was just linked to a snide comment about an entry I made a while ago (about how I thought, oh, AM saying 3rd world people have "low self esteem" because of their "hand outs" was ignorant) that claimed I called AM racist and hater of the poor. Just. WTF. Don't even *dare* talk about issues that someone might deem offensive EVER, ya hear? But this, this is genius:

Simply put, we had to do this in order to prove that we actually understood what argument the other person was making - it avoided all sorts of ugliness that comes with responding (and overreacting) to what we thought or assumed the other person was saying.

*clings to your reason-loving brain*

[huzzlewhat]

Awwww. :-)

The strawman - the most frustrating debating tactic known to humankind. It's worse than Godwin's, I swear. And the only thing that makes it worse are those situations when I feel like people are employing strawmen deliberately, as opposed to just not understanding the point and running with it. Because then it's not about honest, genuine discussion, it's about power struggles. And it's pointless.

[cofax7]

Great post, and what an awesome idea; more people should implement that policy.

[therealjae]

Yeah! And not just in fandom.

-J

[huzzlewhat]

Thanks! It's a hard rule to live by... so many times I find myself reacting emotionally to something someone says. But it's surprising how many times the situation is defused if I call them on what I heard, and they say, "Huh? No! That's not what I meant at all!" I'm trying. I'm not a saint about it, by any means, but I'm trying.

[tabaqui]

I know this is a serious post but - yay! Kerfluffle i never have to see 'cause i'm not in SV fandom! Seems like wanks and kerfluffles have been starting up a *lot* just lately.

I love the model your dad had for arguments. That's awesome. I love to 'argue' like that, too - it sucks when someone doesn't get what you're saying and takes it personally and then anything constructive is pretty much a lost cause.

[huzzlewhat]

I know this is a serious post but - yay! Kerfluffle i never have to see 'cause i'm not in SV fandom!

Hee! I know exactly you feel - I have the exact same reaction whenever there's new kerfluffles in SPN or SGA or HP fandom... "Whew! Dodged a bullet there!"

And yeah, those were some pretty good words of wisdom he gave me to live by. What's the point in having an argument if you can't even agree on what you're arguing about? Doesn't that take the fun out of it?