I can't wait for all this stupid "Ground Zero Mosque" (that is neither at Ground Zero nor a mosque) crap to go away, especially in light of the fact that one of the things they're building at actual ground zero is a frakking shopping mall.
Also, you can tell your father that sensible Americans see religious extremism of any kind as 'the enemy.' :P
I imagine Fox News will make it go for as long as they can get away with. They'll have protests and then riots and then burning and then rebuilding and then more protests and the Glen Beck will set himself on fire for some reason... I hope...
It's interesting that my father tries to justify his racism with 'the americans I have met are...' interchange whatever nationality he's insulting at the time, of course. :|
I was going to write a journal entry about this whole 'Ground Zero mosque' business and what my mother said about it, but since you already have, I don't think that I will now.
I once had a poo in a pub about two minutes' walk from Buckingham Palace. I was not subsequently arrested and charged with crapping directly onto the Queen's pillow.
Some of us are nutty nationalists who are also gay atheists. Some of us are also level-headed communist homophobic Christian extremists. Some of us are neurologically diverse, globalization-friendly polyamorous Ba'al worshipers. Ah, where was I?
Yeah, I don't know about this Brooker guy. First of all, he doesn't seem to recognize that milkshakes and fries are about as patriotic as it gets, and, second, he says Americans aren't dumb. Trust me, I've lived here for over 30 years: they're dumb.
I'm going to make you all hate me and say that, as a (left-wing, atheist) American, that although I'm not personally upset by it, I think it's bad PR and insensitive to the New Yorkers who lost loved ones on 9/11 and who do find it upsetting. I'm not suggesting banning anything, but it would be far more diplomatic for them to choose another location. If a group of American Fundies did something similar in a non-predominantly-Christian country, I would also disapprove of a plan to build a "Church and Cultural Center" near the site.
Much as I disapprove of the building of any religious sites in general, I hasten to point out that the cultural centre being proposed is not even overtly Islamic. There is one prayer room. That's it. The rest is purely secular. But it's not the religion thing that is the issue, for me. I don't think giving in to the right wing is a good idea. Like I said, Fox News says 'jump' and we say 'how high?' Personally, I think it would be great to build a science research centre sponsored by Richard Dawkins right next door to it and see what happens. XD
The thing is, it isn't just coming from the right wing. I mean, they *are* jumping all over it with ridiculous ads filled with exaggeration, but (according to my understanding) there are also a lot of moderates, including New Yorkers who witnessed the attacks, who are upset by it. Just because we don't pass laws to protect people's feelings doesn't mean it's wise to subject a whole bunch of survivors of a traumatic event like that to something so triggering simply to use a specific building where others could be chosen.
Did you remind your dad that his opinion is completely irrelevant? I'm so sick of this bullshit, with people in other states, and apparently other countries, protesting and thinking their opinions should have any sway.
And I'm also sick of people, both in New York and outside, thinking that you can stop something because it may or may not be insensitive. There's no Constitutional amendment for sensitivity. There is one for religious freedom, and you can't pick and choose where it applies. End of argument.
Hm, so I can't try to stop men from mansplaining to me, because they have freedom of speech? I mean, it's one thing to say you can't legally stop something, and another to tell people not to complain, protest, criticize, etc. when something offends them. And simply having the legal right to do something doesn't necessarily make it a fabulous idea.
The thing is, the thing they are 'offended by' isn't even real. It's not a mosque. It's barely Islamic at all. And even if it was, the fact that people are choosing to be insulted by this goes to show the bigotry that has infected a lot of people regarding Islam. Islam did not commit the atrocities of 11/9 any more than Christianity committed the myriad attacks of the Ireland troubles. When people claim that this community centre is 'an insult to those that died', they expose their own ignorance and bigotry. I'm sorry, but someone else's blind prejudice is no reason to infringe on the rights of others.
By all means, people are free to protest and shit. I mean, I'd rather have something entirely secular.
For me, the issue isn't so much the freedom of speech / expression / of religion. Though that is an interesting angle to take. However, I think this whole thing exposes something ugly about western society - in that people are all too willing to label Islam as a whole to be the enemy. The fact that people are against this project - which is run by a guy who has to be one of the most left wing moderate Muslims I've come across for a long time - shows that they have put no thought into their reaction. It's blind prejudice. The emphasis, in this case, being on 'blind'.
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Also, you can tell your father that sensible Americans see religious extremism of any kind as 'the enemy.' :P
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It's interesting that my father tries to justify his racism with 'the americans I have met are...' interchange whatever nationality he's insulting at the time, of course. :|
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Now you can counter him with, "Well, the Americans *I* know..." ;)
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On a related note, I'll assume you've read Charlie Brooker's article on the subject. If not, it's here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/23/charlie-brooker-ground-zero-mosque?CMP=NECNETTXT766
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Hahah! Charlie Brooker never fails to amuse. :D
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Another thing that I have to say, not all Americans are nutty nationalists who are also homophobic Christian extremists. Some are Anglophiles. :p
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Yeah, I don't know about this Brooker guy. First of all, he doesn't seem to recognize that milkshakes and fries are about as patriotic as it gets, and, second, he says Americans aren't dumb. Trust me, I've lived here for over 30 years: they're dumb.
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But it's not the religion thing that is the issue, for me. I don't think giving in to the right wing is a good idea. Like I said, Fox News says 'jump' and we say 'how high?'
Personally, I think it would be great to build a science research centre sponsored by Richard Dawkins right next door to it and see what happens. XD
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And I'm also sick of people, both in New York and outside, thinking that you can stop something because it may or may not be insensitive. There's no Constitutional amendment for sensitivity. There is one for religious freedom, and you can't pick and choose where it applies. End of argument.
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Islam did not commit the atrocities of 11/9 any more than Christianity committed the myriad attacks of the Ireland troubles. When people claim that this community centre is 'an insult to those that died', they expose their own ignorance and bigotry. I'm sorry, but someone else's blind prejudice is no reason to infringe on the rights of others.
By all means, people are free to protest and shit. I mean, I'd rather have something entirely secular.
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