kink and canon

[hth_the_first]

The friendly folks at Marvel have brought us this cover for the new issue of Heroes for Hire. I can't imagine hiring any of these women for anything, unless I should suddenly be in need of backup singers, but what do I know. Anyway, for all of you who loved the Mary Jane statuette but really wished there had been more crying and alien spooge,

Comments

[executrix]

Here via metafandom. I'm a TV fan and not a comics fan, so I'm looking at it from the outside--I'd say that a slaveboy!Obi figure would be distinguishable from a slavegirl!Leia figure because, even though it's not impossible for RL men to experience sexual harassment or rape, it is simply far less of a risk than it is for women. And, frankly, I think that women are a lot better than men at separating fantasy from reality (and a lot less delusional about who desires them).

[melaniedavidson]

Well said.

[indywind]

What I think I hear you saying is,

Normalization of exploitation is not OK.

I am behind that. Like you, I'm okay with anyone's private enjoyment taking whatever form they like (as long as it doesn't harm any other people without their consent, etc.)... but public, mass-market, normalized stuff both reflects and shapes public mores, so its content should be in line with what public mores are, and what we want them to be. Exploitation is not something I want to see become *more* publicly acceptable.

Kink, Canon, Fanfic, and Roller-Coasters

[nindulgence]

This is a very interesting and thought-provoking response--thanks for posting! (And thank you also for being so generous in your quotation--I was hesitant to raise this question at all because I didn't want to be misinterpreted as somehow being in favour of misogynistic/demeaning depictions of women. From what I've seen, female comics fans put up with a lot of crap in that department on a daily basis.)

When I look at something like the Heroes for Hire cover, my gut reaction is that (besides being wildly inappropriate for the stated target market), it's creepy and offensive on multiple levels. It's my experience of fandom that's now complicating that reaction for me, by reminding me that I have enjoyed reading and writing stories in which male characters are in jeopardy or sexually threatened--I've even made comments such as, "Oh, character X suffers so beautifully." These are my own words--written not out of any sort of aggression towards the character in particular or men in general; on the contrary, they convey an appreciation of

Leia, Obi-Wan, and Male/Female Sexuality in Public Space

[nindulgence]

To go with our PleasureSlave!Obi-Wan statuette, let's imagine a theoretical tv show: The Padawan Adventures, where an eighteen-year-old Obi-Wan travels the galaxy with his master, and every week he is menaced by villains, who tie him up and rip his clothing and his skin [...] I would think it was gross and exploitative and disrespectful, and I wouldn't accept "But it's on the Oxygen Network, so it's for/about women's pleasures!" as a defense.And in such a situation, I would totally agree with you. The reason I used slave-girl Leia as a comparison is that her gold bikini is so often affectionately referenced in pop culture (e.g., on "Friends") as having been a key moment in a lot of young boys' sexual awakenings. And I remember there being debate at the time of RotJ about whether it was appropriate to portray the famously turtle-necked Leia in this way--debate that seems almost quaint in retrospect given that by today's standards, Leia's slave-girl outfit offered ample coverage and was actually rather practical and athletic

Canonical Harem Pants on Young Indy

[nindulgence]

I have only just now recalled the episode of "The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles" in which Sean Patrick Flanery's Indy plays a harem guard in an avant-garde production, and must use his shiny loin-protector as a signalling mirror.

Apparently George Lucas gets more points for gender parity than I thought. ;-)

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Re: Leia, Obi-Wan, and Male/Female Sexuality in Public Space

[myniamh]

Everything you've both said is very interesting and excellent but my mind got a bit stuck on the image of Obi wan in Leia's slave outfit.
I have previously put Carrie Fisher in Han Solo's costume, gender switchery is sometimes the best way to explain to those who have never thought about the situation, exactly what the issues are.

Re: Leia, Obi-Wan, and Male/Female Sexuality in Public Space

[nindulgence]

Thanks for the links! I think it's the inclusion of the beard that somehow really makes the Obi-Wan pic for me. *g*

Carrie looks fab in her Corellian gear! It reminds me a bit of the early Ralph McQuarrie sketches in which Luke was a girl.

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