a tangential thoughtpolymorphouslySeptember 4 2006, 07:03:21 UTC
I have a theory that your placement in the school houses has to do with what types of energies (for lack of a better word) you channel into magical talent. For Gryffindors, its bravery and loyalty. For Slytherin, anger and revenge. For Hufflepuff, simple hard work. For Ravenclaw, logic and intelligence.
Pettigrew is not so bright, not a hard worker. He also seems to have quite a lot more fear than anger and not enough self-respect for vengeance. Though it seems rather twisted, it does seem that he's most capable of strongest magic when he is acting out of devotion and bravery (though unfortunately this devotion switches from James and Sirius to Voldemort).
musing a bitwoman_ironingSeptember 4 2006, 16:26:48 UTC
Thoughtful essay. But life debts, I wonder if fandom doesn't attribute too much importance to them. Does the phrase 'life debt' actually appear in the books? In an utterly prosaic way, if someone saves your life you owe them something; you owe them your life. On a psychological level, you must feel a bond with them, some sort of desire and obligation to repay. If your enemy saves your life you're in a challenging position, and reconciling feelings of enmity and obligation is likely to cause you torment. Is it really much more than the power of these feelings that Dumbledore is talking about
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Woman Ironing, the phrase "life debt" does appear in the books, and it has always bothered me. I do agree with you that I cannot see Pettigrew doing anything heroic; he and Umbridge are the two characters in these books that absolutely give me the creeps
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Snape as potential secret keepermary_j_59September 5 2006, 15:36:27 UTC
Hi mary_j_50! Just a quick point- you speculate that Snape might have offered to James to be the Pottres' Secret Keeper. There is no way on earth that James would have accepted that, and frankly, it seems highly unlikely that Snape would bother offering, James trusted Sirius and chose him (at first) even over Dumbledore! I agree though that it seems likely that Snape no longer owes Harry anything after his actions in the books. The fact that he still stopped Harry from being tortured & did not drag him off to LV does seem to strengthen the "Snape is good" argument, although for me the clincher that all was not as it seemed was the absence of Fawkes on the Tower to take the AK.
Re: Snape as potential secret keepermary_j_59September 5 2006, 22:36:38 UTC
No, James probably would not have accepted, but young Snape, if he in fact had one, would have been very conscious of a life debt and eager to be rid of it, so I think it is likely he would have offered. And I am *certain* he warned James of the betrayal and the pending attack. My reason for thinking this is a striking line of dialogue in POA - Snape yells at Harry that he has just saved his life, and Harry should be thanking him on bended knee, since otherwise he would have died "like your father, too arrogant to think you might be mistaken in Black." (Quoting from memory: errors mine.)What on earth does Snape mean by this? What makes him so certain that James Potter was too arrogant to believe he was mistaken in Black? Snape is speaking with absolute certainty here, and with great passion - as CMWinters says, he practically comes unhinged in this scene. There must be a reason for it. And the idea that Snape actually *warned* James Potter is, to me, the simplest and most satisfying reason.
Life Debt MagictravisprinziSeptember 6 2006, 11:34:20 UTC
I'll address this briefly here, and then I'll actually add to the essay some points based on the helpful comments along these lines.
"Life debt" magic only sounds awful if we think of "debts" like we think of our financial loans, etc. Sure, if "life debts" work like paying back a loan, that sounds pretty bad, especially in the context in which we're talking.
But I don't think it works like that. When Dumbledore talks about it being "magic at is deepest, its most impenetrable," he's speaking very similarly to the way he talks about love, isn't he? I don't think he's saying, "This deep magic causes you to be in the debt of your saver, until you pay him back by saving his life." Rather, he's saying that when one saves another's life, it magically creates a bond between them which cannot be ignored (though I believe ultimately it can be disregarded if one so chooses).
So, in practice, Pettigrew could choose to entirely disregard Harry's saving his life...but it's a lot harder now, and I don't think he will. It's sort of like if
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You left out Snape saving Draco's life in the bathroom after Harry's curse, which doubly makes Draco indebted to Snape. Didn't Snape also help save that girl who was poisoned by Draco's necklace (I don't completely remember Snape's involvement, but I think he was the one who counteracted that curse).
I'm going to respond to all the comments about how awful "life debt" magic sounds very soon, but I wanted to just make a brief point here in response to this comment:
Anyone else notice that the guy who happens to be saving the most lives throughout the series has been Snape? What does that say about the good/bad Snape issue?
Travis, you are so right! I certainly did notice this, and it's one of the things that convinces me that, appearances to the contrary, Snape is really good. Nice to have company in this-
Please Consider Posting This on FictionAlleyswissmargNovember 29 2006, 10:06:37 UTC
This essay would be a great addition to Harry Potter InkPot (HIP), the House on FictionAlley for essays on topics related to Harry Potter. You can find out more about it here:
Comments 10
Pettigrew is not so bright, not a hard worker. He also seems to have quite a lot more fear than anger and not enough self-respect for vengeance. Though it seems rather twisted, it does seem that he's most capable of strongest magic when he is acting out of devotion and bravery (though unfortunately this devotion switches from James and Sirius to Voldemort).
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Just a quick point- you speculate that Snape might have offered to James to be the Pottres' Secret Keeper. There is no way on earth that James would have accepted that, and frankly, it seems highly unlikely that Snape would bother offering, James trusted Sirius and chose him (at first) even over Dumbledore!
I agree though that it seems likely that Snape no longer owes Harry anything after his actions in the books. The fact that he still stopped Harry from being tortured & did not drag him off to LV does seem to strengthen the "Snape is good" argument, although for me the clincher that all was not as it seemed was the absence of Fawkes on the Tower to take the AK.
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"Life debt" magic only sounds awful if we think of "debts" like we think of our financial loans, etc. Sure, if "life debts" work like paying back a loan, that sounds pretty bad, especially in the context in which we're talking.
But I don't think it works like that. When Dumbledore talks about it being "magic at is deepest, its most impenetrable," he's speaking very similarly to the way he talks about love, isn't he? I don't think he's saying, "This deep magic causes you to be in the debt of your saver, until you pay him back by saving his life." Rather, he's saying that when one saves another's life, it magically creates a bond between them which cannot be ignored (though I believe ultimately it can be disregarded if one so chooses).
So, in practice, Pettigrew could choose to entirely disregard Harry's saving his life...but it's a lot harder now, and I don't think he will. It's sort of like if ( ... )
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Anyone else notice that the guy who happens to be saving the most lives throughout the series has been Snape? What does that say about the good/bad Snape issue?
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