Comments | hp_essays: The Ragnarok Motif and the M.A.D. Deaths of Snape and Pettigrew in Book 7

sinick in hp_essays

The Ragnarok Motif and the M.A.D. Deaths of Snape and Pettigrew in Book 7

Feb 08, 2006 09:13

Back on Jan 24, amanuensis1 made an interesting post where she speculated on the odds of various HP characters dying in Book 7.

This essay covers slightly different ground. Like her, I believe that both Snape and Pettigrew are goners, but instead of the chances of their deaths in book 7, I'm going to describe the manner in which I believe Snape and Pettigrew ( Read more... )

other topics:mythology, characters:severus snape, other topics:theories, characters:remus lupin, characters:peter pettigrew, characters:fenrir greyback

Comments 153

tunxeh February 8 2006, 18:34:26 UTC

The Pettigrew/Greyback thing makes a lot of sense. But Snape comes across as incredibly embittered. Where is he going to find the happy memory to cast a really powerful Patronus?

I'll second that. stinksap February 8 2006, 19:05:12 UTC

My thought exactly.
Tonk's patronus changed in response to a strong *positive*
emotion; love. (The strongest emotion/force against dark magic if you accept at face value /Rowling and Dumbledores assertion that Harrys capacity for love is what will make all the difference in his battle against Voldemort.)

I can't fathom how killing Dumbledore (his own mentor?) could be construed as a positive experience unless Snape truly is one of the bad guys. (Which I am loathe to buy into.)

Perhaps Snapes patronus has been a Phoenix all along; this would explain why Rowling has shied away from showing it to us, and why Dumbledore trusted him completely.

If anything, I believe Snape will have a harder time than ever summoning a strong patronus.

Re: I'll second that. vvvexation February 8 2006, 22:53:37 UTC

It might not be necessary, though, for it to be a positive emotion; we've never heard that it is, and it seems pretty certain that Snape had some kind of very strong emotional response to killing Dumbledore.

Re: I'll second that. sinick February 9 2006, 03:03:42 UTC

True. And I'm not convinced that Tonks' emotion at the time we saw her changed Patronus was all that _positive_: yes, she loved Lupin, but it was _unrequited_ love, which is an intensely painful thing. Certainly the sorrow had begun to sap her Metamorphmagus abilities.

Thread 18

melisus February 8 2006, 18:35:41 UTC

My own personal jury is still out on the whole Snape thing... But I like where you've gone with regards to Peter Pettigrew. I always thought the fact that his hand was silver was significant (he made only a brief appearance in Book 6 but Rowling still felt the need to describe his hand) and I was probably a little more than disappointed when Rowling came out and said Lupin would NOT die by Pettigrew's hand (on her web site somewhere... I wish I could find it again). But Greyback... I like that... For one thing, I'd love to see both werewolves duke it out with one another, and I think it would be interesting that Peter would use the gift he received from Voldemort to do GOOD instead of ill.

sinick February 9 2006, 03:05:40 UTC

Yes, she carefully said not a word about _Greyback_, or about werewolves in general: all she said was that _Lupin_ would not be killed.

As for the Snape thing: we do know that the identity of his Patronus is a huge spoiler of some sort for events in Book 7. JKR said as much in an interview, when she refused to answer exactly that question.

cmwinters February 9 2006, 06:34:43 UTC

Actually...she said a *great deal* about werewolves. She specifically said the theory was well thought-out *because* silver is historically known to be the bane of werewolves.

However, she didn't mention a single word about ANY OTHER werewolf. Just Lupin.

drmm February 8 2006, 18:48:43 UTC

Snape's patronus as a phoenix makes sense, true, but I've been wondering if there's a chance Fawkes will play messanger between Snape and Harry, to honor Dumbledore's last request, or something like that.

sinick February 9 2006, 03:10:40 UTC

Fawkes is another possibility, of course, but if Fawkes is Snape's channel of communication, why did JKR go to all the trouble of setting up the Patronus as the perfect communication method from a deep-cover agent to a side which would distrust his messages, if they knew their source?

drmm February 9 2006, 05:12:58 UTC

Because JKR has a bad habit of going off on random tangents that really don't do much to help the overall plot?

But the Patronus or Fawkes are the obvious choices, unless Dumbledore confided in another Order member.

sinick February 9 2006, 05:15:55 UTC

And I really can't see Dumbledore telling anyone Snape's innocent.

Why go to such suicidal lengths to give the poor bloke a cover, then turn right around and blow it wide open?

Thread 5

anthon1 February 8 2006, 18:52:22 UTC

Not entirely related to the essay, but on reading the footnote I was struck by an idea: what better to use to ward off Inferi than a phoenix?

beyond_pale February 8 2006, 21:51:17 UTC

in what sense?

focusf1 February 8 2006, 22:13:28 UTC

You mean like symbol of fire?

sinick February 9 2006, 03:12:19 UTC

Fascinating! This works well as a third fated pair. I can easily see Fawkes as a powerful symbol of fire having a uniquely damaging effect upon Inferi.

viverra_libro February 8 2006, 18:55:03 UTC

I must bow to the weight of your logic. The Pettigrew theory is particularly appealing. Unfortunately, the impending death of Snape is sufficiently depressing that I cannot celebrate your conclusions with any great excitement.

sinick February 9 2006, 03:14:01 UTC

Oh, believe me, I'm _not_ celebrating, at all, over the idea of Snape's death. Sadly, my feelings about Snape don't shake the conviction that Book 6 left me with - that one way or the other he'll die a tragic yet redemptive death by the end of Book 7.