Did the Atlantis Expedition bring a flag?

[horridporrid]

So I was reading (of course I was reading *g*) and I came across this viewpoint:  The Atlantis expedition behaves in the Pegasus galaxy as the British behaved in India circa 19th century.  They are, in fact, Rudyard Kipling on crack.  This... intrigued me.

eta: I want to clarify that this is a question I formed for myself.  It's a vast

Comments

[anonymous]

I think this is the kind of behavior the original viewpoint meant to attach to the Atlantis expedition.

I'm the author, and no, that's not what was meant at all. All Rodney was suggesting was that the Lanteans were colonists, and that in the eyes of the Pegasan peoples, they were somewhere they had no right to be. He was comparing what the Pegasans had already told them with situations with which he was familiar, on earth. That's why the comparison wasn't only to India, but to Indochine, and the Americas, and everywhere Europe and the United States had pretty much ever been involved.

[horridporrid]

I'm the author, and no, that's not what was meant at all.

I was a bit nervous about that. :) I did worry about putting too much into someone else's statements, but I also wanted to express the thoughts I'd had. So I figured I'd detail out how I interpreted things and go from there. It's also why I didn't link back to the original leaping off point: I was making assumptions and didn't want to either state definitively, "this is what was being said right here" or worse, make it seem like I was encouraging a pile on.

(If it'd be helpful I can eta in a "just been told it's not, see [this comment] or something?)

That's why the comparison wasn't only to India, but to Indochine, and the Americas, and everywhere Europe and the United States had pretty much ever been involved.I did simplify it down, yes. I still don't think the comparison works. The Lanteans aren't, imo, trying to exploit or take over the Pegasus galaxy. They arrived there, yes. They've explored, yes. And they've made some massive impacts. Some negative (really

[anonymous]

We disagree on a big point there - I think the Atlantis expedition is an exemplary imperial venture. To take a classic example, Columbus didn't personally try and bring the Americas under his dominion, but his exploratory voyages were unquestionably imperial in nature. I don't see the same distinction between explorer and imperialist that you see - especially because there are often inequities of power involved in who has the resources to qualify as an 'explorer' in the western historical canon (which is the background with which I was playing, and with which I think the show plays too

[horridporrid]

One of the things I love about fanfic is exactly this: posing the questions the show (or book, or what have you) doesn't pose; looking at POVs that aren't usually highlighted or are out and out ignored. And I love the fact that your fic got me thinking about the Atlantis expedition in a way I hadn't before. I like thinking about Atlantis. :)

We disagree on a big point there - I think the Atlantis expedition is an exemplary imperial venture.

Whereas I think they definitely could be, but are doing their best not to be. As you point out, the power differential is huge. It may have been possible for the expedition to turn the Athosians into servants (I say "may have" because I don't want to underestimate Teyla or the Athosians); they could have easily taken the ZPM from the planet of children. That they didn't gives them... not credit (you don't get bonus points for behaving properly), but it suggests to me that they are aware of the delicate position they are in and are trying not to fall into the "might makes right" trap.

[sheafrotherdon]

Hi! Sorry - the anonymity was down to the fact that the story was part of a fic fest and authors hadn't been revealed when the discussion began. Happy to provide a link now that everyone knows who wrote what! http://sheafrotherdon.livejournal.com/289117.html

[anonymous]

Also - thank you for the offer to clarify whether your interpretation of Rodney's comment was what I intended, but that's okay, no worries. What I think would be helpful, however, is to distinguish between what that scene does in the story - has two men from Earth draw comparisons between the perception that they're imperialists in Pegasus, and instances of imperialism back home - and your bigger question (which seems inspired by the scene, but is not directly drawn from it). I have absolutely no problem with folks discussing whether or not the Atlantis expedition is exactly the same as the British occupation of India - that's an interesting discussion to have! But I think it's misleading to suggest that the story itself makes that claim.

[horridporrid]

Done! :) I really did want this to post to be focused on the question rather than what I leaped from -- so thank you for letting me know I wasn't getting that across.

[anonymous]

thank you!