So PC it Hurts

[hippoiathanatoi]

I already wrote some about the complaints regarding supposed sexism and racism in Game of Thrones, but with more and more commentary along those lines cropping up -- not the least from, alas, overly PC commentators in Sweden -- I find I have more to get off my chest.

Take this little gem, for example. Of course, its in Swedish, which makes it a

Comments

[terraprime]

I think it's entirely fair for you to say that you do not care about books that problematize gender issues. But by the same token, I think it's fair for others to want to see hints of the author being aware that the environment that s/he is portraying is sexist and then find traces of the author's take on it. While I, too, roll my eyes on fiction written to promulgate The Feminism (some of Mercedes Lackey's stuff come to mind), I do think that's a legitimate middle ground

[hippoiathanatoi]

Well, fair and fair...I suppose it is, but if I was an author, I'd sigh and roll my eyes at them for wanting such hints. Especially if they read the lack of such hints as _approval_ of the sexism inherent in the setting by the author. If they prefer those sort of books, fine, but they shouldn't malign authors who choose a different approach

[terraprime]

I get really annoyed with the argument that because its fantasy, you can toss the gender-roles of whatever period that inspired you out the window. Or rather, not that you can but that you _should_, that is the part that annoys me. Because if you don't do it, you're supporting old-fashioned gender roles and you are a bad person. I think fantasy is great for turning the tables on expectations if that is what you want to do, but a lot of them commentators seem to feel that what you write is only valid if you do that.

Just so.

So, no, I don't see a need for asking that question if its clear that is not what the author wanted to explore. Or at the very least, if you ask the question, you should be satisfied if the answer is "that was not what I wanted to do".Let me quibble more

[hippoiathanatoi]

I'll continue to quibble that a lack of explicit markers that you are aware of gender biases should be interpreted as either thoughtless regurgitation or a form of approval. It may just as well signal a decision not place signposts at such issues, something which personally turns me off on books in most cases. Simply writing good, fully-realized characters of either gender is generally enough for me to determine that an author does not place one gender over the other

[stegoking]

"I love Hobb, but please, can we not care about the gender of the writers?"

We'll never stop being sexist until we do just that. The book is the test. The plumbing of the author matters only to the sexist among us.

[terraprime]

You know I'm going to disagree with this, right

[hippoiathanatoi]

Quick note! Its all Linda, this, not Elio. I know its usually him getting into these sorts of discussions, but I am the one with the allergy to feminists, not him. ;)

[stegoking]

Text. The book is the TEXT. :p

[regina_of_york]

I could see the point that it's hard to be a woman in Westeros, except that it's hard to be ANYONE in Westeros. No one is safe, and it doesn't matter if you are male or female, young or old, noble or peasant. Yes, some have it worse than others, but everyone is at risk.

Have you seen that list of comic book hero/heroines, with each one's fate listed? It was really shocking what women in the comics endure (number of rapes, tortures, deaths) compared to their male counterparts. I bring it up as I wonder if anyone has ever tried to create a similar list for ASOIAF, so one could compare along gender lines. It would be a monster task, I'm sure.