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Oh hey, look! A new essay! I've just randomly thought and typed this up today.
This is a personal essay by the way, thus highly subjected to bias, as opposed to being an objective view telling you what you should like (why should I tell you That?). Enjoy? ^^
What's "deep" according to a fandom?
When you think about it more, the way the Naruto fandom tends to apply the word "deep" to a character or relationship is much the same way one would apply the word to a hole in the ground.
A deep hole is:
- dark and cold. The light does not reach the more profound parts. If it does, then it's not deep enough.
- and it's hard to get out of. Once you're in a hole, you're stuck in it. A good way to test the depth of a hole is to attempt to get out of it. The more miserably you fail, the deeper the hole is.
By now I think you have an idea of where I'm getting at. Prepare to laugh, hopefully, because I'm going to poke at some examples.
I. Depth in the fandom
I.1. What is deep?
I.2. What makes a deep character? The fandom definition!
I.3. What makes a deep relationship? The fandom definition bis!
II. My views on all this
II.1. Quick note: how holes aren't necessarily bad things (aka don't skin me yet!)
II.2. Alternative definition #1: High?
II.3. Alternative definition #2: Climber! (and Faller)
Conclusion
I. Depth in the fandom
I.1. What is deep?
Who's deeper? Sakura or Sasuke? Most people would without hesitation point to Sasuke, while giving a million explanations as to why Sakura is "shallow." But where "deep" is concerned, I personally don't think Sasuke is That deep a character. Certainly more than most, but what's deep isn't in my opinion his personality, but his background. Even then, his background isn't so much "deep", but "tragic."
Sakura by contrast, I like her because her "complexity" is not due to passive influence from dark backgrounds, but in active dealing with any situations that do arise. Sakura could very well stop everything right now and lead a "normal" life. She chose not to, instead she chose a demanding past that her normal-ish background had not prepared her to.
Of course, many people would disagree, and Sasuke certainly has more to him than his background. But this made me ponder the notion of "depth" for a character.
And I realized the "problem" lies not in the definition of "deep", but in its connotations, in the qualities associated to its Visual namesake.
What did the word "deep" originally apply to? Basically... it applied to a hole in the ground. More poetic people might associate the word with something like an ocean or the lake, but I've realized that the "hole in the ground" analogy seems to work best. "Deep" works best when it's surrounded by solid, that everybody else can stand on, save the person in the hole, and when the person in the hole can't just float out.
Of course, "deep" is applied to more things than characters and relationships. A philosophical statement can be "deep" without evoking any qualities of a hole (lol). But for characters, especially in the Naruto fandoms, this analogy often works surprisingly well. Not for All fans, mind you, they're not All that shallow, but for a good number.
So what is a deep hole like?
I.2. What makes a deep character? The fandom definition!
So what is a deep hole like? Basically, it's:
- dark and cold. The light does not reach the more profound parts. If it does, then it's not deep enough.
- and it's hard to get out of. Once you're in a hole, you're stuck in it. A good way to test the depth of a hole is to attempt to get out of it. The more miserably you fail, the deeper the hole is.
- weak characters don't count by the way.
Itachi is "deep." Indeed, he's a psycho who's dark and cold. His background is darker and colder, not to mention dead.
Deidara and Kisame, by contrast, aren't "deep", because although they're every bit as psycho as Itachi, they well... smile much more. Kabuto is an exception, because even his smiles are cold and fake (consider them fluorescent light?). And now that Itachi has degrading eyesight, that makes him so much less of a "flat" character and much more of a multi-dimensional "deep" character (since he's in a "hole" he can't get out of).
Sasuke is the "deepest", because he's dark and cold too, as is his background, and he's unable to get out of the hole he's stuck in. Sure, he's tried, but the fact that he's failed shows just how "deep" he is! If he were to succeed, he wouldn't be "deep" at all!
Is Naruto "deep"? He sure fits many of the criterias. But light doesn't reach a dark place and Naruto's always cheerful. So obviously, he isn't deep at all. Unless he's crying his eyes out or is taken over by Kyuubi, that is.
Sakura? Nah. She's also too cheerful, unless she's crying around Sasuke. And she's "normal", she's on the surface, not in a hole. She doesn't even have anything to climb out of. Sure, she's climbing Something, but it's not really out of a hole (or rather, she doesn't Have to be in the hole), so she's shallow.
Gaara? He used to be deep. But he's climbed out of the hole since so now he's flat and boring. Same with Neji. Fortunately, Kakashi is still angsting about Obito, and now about team 7, so he's deep.
Gai and Lee though! They're the ultimate shallow. See, Lee (and Gai to a lesser degree) all started in their own "holes" since they were all losers, but they never let it get to them. They never fell deep enough into the hole, indeed they got right out and are basking in the light. So yeah, they're shallow.
Ino! Same thing. Shallow prostitute. What? Her friendship with Sakura? It wasn't a hole. So she's still shallow. Tenten has no hole of her own either.
Jiraiya wasn't deep until we got the bit about his failure with Orochimaru, his own "hole", that he never managed to climb out of, so to say. Tsunade climbed out of her hole too well, so now she's just a shallow bimbo who doesn't deserve to be Hokage. Unless she's angsting about team Legendary Sannin in fanfics.
I.3. What makes a deep relationship? The fandom definition bis!
Interestingly enough, the definition of "depth" when concerning a relationship is somewhat different from the one that applies to characters. I've personally distinguished several scenarios:
- one of the partner is in or is falling into a deep hole. Often, that first hole is a burial hole, ie the person is dead. You can't get deeper than dead (though you can get close), nobody's getting out of That one. Of course, this affects the other in a multitude of ways, usually making him fall into his own hole.
- one of the partners drags or pushes the other into a deep hole. The first partner doesn't Necessarily have to be in a hole first, but it helps. In this case, it's about the same as the above scenario.
- the two are or have been in the same deep hole.
The last one actually presents an interesting scenario: two characters who have been in the same hole can negate each other's individual "holes," yet the relationship itself will still be considered "deep," as long as the individual holes were deep enough in the past. It seems like the chronological aspect matters less here?
So the relationship between Haku and Zabuza is deep. Because one of them dies, and that drags the second one into a "hole" of depression. Then he dies too. Can't get deeper!
The relationship between Chiyo and Sasori is deep as well, since Sasori was quite dead in his own way (can't be saved) and not getting better. Chiyo died too! Yosh!
And let's not forget Kakashi and Obito. Where did Rin go by the way?
The relationship between Naruto and any of those he's converted or inspired (Hinata, Neji, Gaara, um... maybe not Sai) is deep. After all, Hinata was deep, Neji was deep, Gaara was deep, Naruto was in the same hole, you can't get deeper. Yeah. It's even deeper than say... Naruto and Sakura (sure there's the 'Sasuke' hole now but Sakura herself isn't deep anyway) and Gai and Lee (because they're both happy. So the relationship can be a bunch of things, but nobody bothers to qualify is as "deep").
Neji and Hinata were in the same Hyuuga hole. And Neji tried to push Hinata into a burial hole when Hinata tried to get out. Can't get deeper than that. Yes, I know I'm making fun of my own fandom now, including of views of my own. But I have to be fair. *sob*
The relationship between Shikamaru and Chouji didn't seem deep until Chouji was willing to risk stepping into a burial hole to defend his friend's honour. Still, most people don't give this a second look.
Itachi and Sasuke! So deep. Itachi, who was deep as is, pushed Sasuke into a hole so deep that Sasuke can't get out of no matter what he tries. Sasuke dedicates his life to pushing Itachi into a burial hole. Deep!
The relationship between Naruto and Sasuke is one of the deepest as well. They were both in the same hole of loneliness. Together, too (uh...). Sasuke is now in his own hole (courtesy of Itachi). He tried to push Naruto into a burial hole, though failing that, Naruto still got dragged into a hole of his own (the Kyuubi 4-tails hole). Like, it's so deep, man!
The relationship between Sasuke and Sakura is, of course, much deeper than the relationship between Naruto and Sakura. See Sasuke is in the deeper hole, and Sakura keeps failing to drag him out. Instead, she falls into her own hole of feeling useless. So the relationship is deeper than NaruSaku, where all they do is drag each other out of holes, and are well-lit while doing that (*yawn*). Part II NaruSaku is coming close though.
Three-way relationships! The Legendary Sannin relationship is deep. It broke after all, Orochimaru might as well be dead (in the sense that he's not coming back and not getting redeemed), Tsunade fell into a hole of her own, Jiraiya nearly fell into a burial hole while trying to get Orochimaru back.
By contrast, "InoShikaChou parents" is just there. Sure, it's a nice formation, but Nobody will argue that it has the "depth" of the failed Legendary Sannin team (and not just because they're less famous).
II. My views on all this
Oh by the way, I remind you that this is a personal essay that's highly biased towards my own preferences. I am, after all, more explaining my own preferences than telling You what you should like (geh, why should I?).
II.1. Quick note: how holes aren't necessarily bad things (aka don't skin me yet!)
Eek! By now some of you probably want to lynch me for some of the characters and relationships I've apparently criticized! Don't kill me yet!
Holes aren't necessarily "bad" things. After all, they can be a good foundation for a more stable future. Or something. That's how buildings are built, after all, you make a big hole first to set foundations. Depends on what you want. You can't deny that "holes" serve as good motivations? Even Lee had his small hole in the beginning!
Though Huge holes aren't always necessary.
In fact way too deep holes are unnecessary. You don't need to make a 500 meters deep hole if all you want is say... stick a birdhouse in the ground. If the hole is too deep, you have to fill it up some before you can build anything on it.
Still, if the "depth" itself (in my opinion) does not define the value of the character, what would I rather prefer? Strength perhaps?
Do note: I am Not telling You what to look for in a character or relationship. I'm just defining what -I- want to look for. Different people have differences, some people like the holes for themselves.
II.2. Alternative definition #1: High?
In opposition to "deep", maybe "high" can be used. In opposition to "hole", we'd be looking at mountains or buildings. Some of these can be built from a hole and end up higher thanks to the motivation and foundation (or something). So... looking at how "high" a character is?
Gai and Lee are high. So far I'm happy.
Wait, this makes Yondaime and Naruto the "highest" character, right? Actually, I have another word for Naruto, and that's "badly-written." I find him so Static sometimes though. ;_; Like he's strong just for the sake of being strong and able to tell up everyone. It's like he's sitting at the top of the mountain from the very beginning.
And as for Yondy, I think he's uh... a Gary Stu. Sorry!
And some of my favourite characters don't fit this definition at all. Sakura and Hinata are my two favourite characters for a similar reason actually, but I can't exactly say they're the "highest." Sakura is still far from the offensive level of her teammates, Hinata wasn't exactly the strongest either and is nowhere near Naruto's character "strength."
So maybe "high" isn't the word I'm looking for in terms of individual characters?
In terms of relationships though, "high" fits well! I don't support Too many relationships that don't at least have the potential to be high!
NaruSaku and LeeHina are couples I think can be incredibly "high"! =D
So are more down-to-Earth couples such as KibaIno (the interactions would be plenty, in any case)! =D
The Gai/Lee Teacher/Student relationships is high as well!
And InoShikaChou! *heart*
There's still the problem of individual characters though. Maybe another word should be used than "high"?
II.3. Alternative definition #2: Climber!
So now, instead of a static location, I define the character according to the amount of movement they are capable of performing! =D After all, who cares where the car is, as long as it can get to another location? I guess I could use "builder" too, but I prefer "climb"...
So now, with the climber definition, you no longer have to worry about where a character starts! =D It can be at the bottom of a hole (Lee and Hinata for example?), on the surface ground (Sakura), or even on a mountain (Neji maybe?)! It doesn't matter which height you are at! Which height you manage to climb to doesn't really matter either! All that matters is that you do climb higher than where you started! =D
So Lee and Gai started with a hole in terms of strength. Lee had no ninjutsu, no genjutsu, and below-average taijutsu. But through continuous climbing he's managed to reach the surface and even manage to make a good way up the mountain! Power of Youth! =D
Hinata started out in a huge hole in terms of internal (and external, of course) strength. But since then she's managed to gain a bit of self-confidence, and has since made chuunin, so she's managed to climb to the surface at least! =D Giving how deep the starting hole was (ie how Bad she was, lol), I'd say she did a good job just getting to level...
Sakura started on the ground surface. Normal girl, not too bad for a girl but not a powerhouse either, whatever. She's stumbled into a few holes because of her teammates too. For her teammates though, she's now climbing mountains. =D
I like Neji because I perceive him as humble. Although he's already a genius, thus a good way up the mountain, he still perceives his limitations and thus works hard to keep improving. He's also started out in a hole in terms of morales, but when he got dragged out of it I liked how much he willingly embraced the upwards movement this time. I guess the same could be said of Gaara? (I like Gaara less because I see him as too much of a powerhouse. Those tend to scare me off for some reason... but it's just a matter of personal preference, really!)
Naruto? Sure he started out a "loser", but in terms of morale and determination he's just about at the top of the mountain, only occasionally tumbling but then climbing right back up. =\ In terms of strength, don't make me laugh... it may seem that he was low, but he's always had a convenient ladder in the form of Kyuubi...
So those are my views on "climber" characters. *dodges rotten tomatoes because of obvious bias*
In terms of relationships, a "climber" relationship would however fit a somewhat different definition (for me): it doesn't matter where you start. But um... where you end up still usually matters. :S I define "climber" for a relationship as:
- one is capable of pulling the other higher (more points for mutual!)
- the two are capable of edifying something else together (yeah, something of a builder scenario)
NaruSaku is a relationship I consider the ultimate anti-hole climber! It didn't exactly start at a brilliant level, but they have the ability to pull each other higher or prevent each other from falling. At the time of this essay, my NaruSaku manifesto hasn't been completed yet, but once it is this part will be more fully addressed there.
NejiHina I find has some climber potential. It's one of those things I find came out of a big hole but have the potential to build into more. So it's a climber with foundations to help go higher. Specifically, I think they'll be ideal to jointly heal up the Hyuuga clan. But that's just me.
LeeHina is a climber that'd actually start high! (in terms of attitude towards each other. At least they've never tried to kill each other) Then they can climb higher together on the mountain of Youth as they help each other become stronger! Yosh! =D
Gai and Lee is a teacher-student climber relationship! =D
KibaIno doesn't climb much, but I'd find it starting at a good enough level as is. ^^;
InoChou, interestingly enough, is the one pairing I support that's "climber", but not "high." My vision of InoChou is actually fandom-based and angst-based. Basically, Ino, as a Kunoichi in every sense of the word (undercover, seduction, the lot), might end up rotting from within (she can't just quit either, it's her job and someone has to do it). That's where Chouji, with his kindness and the ability to value that which is beyond appearances, might provide a refuge of support and honesty for her. So it's a "climber" in the sense that it'd prevent Ino from falling further.
At the opposite of the spectrum, you'd obviously get "fallers". Some start from the ground and just tumble a bit, some manage to start midway up the mountain then fall all the way into a deep hole. lol. Sucks to be them.
Among obvious "fallers" you have Sasuke. The fact that he had started to climb up some means he's had to fall that much harder. lol. He's caught himself partly though, now he's hanging in there somewhere.
The Legendary Sannin ties is also a faller. Actually, I find this interesting too.
Conclusion
So there we have it. Apart from the traditonal "deep", I also look to things I qualify as "high" and "climber" (lol @ cheesy language rape). Of course, I'm not telling the rest of you want to look for, either.
- catastrophe scenarios can be interesting in themselves
- catastrophe scenarios (or just initially bad ones) can be the foundations for something more healthy later on
- looking at something in a high location can be fun as well
- some things can be interesting to observe as they slowly improve, even if they don't end up at the highest of places
- some things that are tumbling the whole way down can be hilarious entertaining to observe as well.
*pause*
Of course, instead of "high" and "climber", I could have just used "strong" and "that improves" (or something), but that's boring. ^^
OMG EDIT: Hey everyone! Be sure not to miss ew-younerd's essays in the comments section! *__* Also known as: What happens when you write an essay that makes you think "Hey Tati could have written this I wonder what she'd have said? =D"
D=
This is a personal essay by the way, thus highly subjected to bias, as opposed to being an objective view telling you what you should like (why should I tell you That?). Enjoy? ^^
What's "deep" according to a fandom?
When you think about it more, the way the Naruto fandom tends to apply the word "deep" to a character or relationship is much the same way one would apply the word to a hole in the ground.
A deep hole is:
- dark and cold. The light does not reach the more profound parts. If it does, then it's not deep enough.
- and it's hard to get out of. Once you're in a hole, you're stuck in it. A good way to test the depth of a hole is to attempt to get out of it. The more miserably you fail, the deeper the hole is.
By now I think you have an idea of where I'm getting at. Prepare to laugh, hopefully, because I'm going to poke at some examples.
I. Depth in the fandom
I.1. What is deep?
I.2. What makes a deep character? The fandom definition!
I.3. What makes a deep relationship? The fandom definition bis!
II. My views on all this
II.1. Quick note: how holes aren't necessarily bad things (aka don't skin me yet!)
II.2. Alternative definition #1: High?
II.3. Alternative definition #2: Climber! (and Faller)
Conclusion
I. Depth in the fandom
I.1. What is deep?
Who's deeper? Sakura or Sasuke? Most people would without hesitation point to Sasuke, while giving a million explanations as to why Sakura is "shallow." But where "deep" is concerned, I personally don't think Sasuke is That deep a character. Certainly more than most, but what's deep isn't in my opinion his personality, but his background. Even then, his background isn't so much "deep", but "tragic."
Sakura by contrast, I like her because her "complexity" is not due to passive influence from dark backgrounds, but in active dealing with any situations that do arise. Sakura could very well stop everything right now and lead a "normal" life. She chose not to, instead she chose a demanding past that her normal-ish background had not prepared her to.
Of course, many people would disagree, and Sasuke certainly has more to him than his background. But this made me ponder the notion of "depth" for a character.
And I realized the "problem" lies not in the definition of "deep", but in its connotations, in the qualities associated to its Visual namesake.
What did the word "deep" originally apply to? Basically... it applied to a hole in the ground. More poetic people might associate the word with something like an ocean or the lake, but I've realized that the "hole in the ground" analogy seems to work best. "Deep" works best when it's surrounded by solid, that everybody else can stand on, save the person in the hole, and when the person in the hole can't just float out.
Of course, "deep" is applied to more things than characters and relationships. A philosophical statement can be "deep" without evoking any qualities of a hole (lol). But for characters, especially in the Naruto fandoms, this analogy often works surprisingly well. Not for All fans, mind you, they're not All that shallow, but for a good number.
So what is a deep hole like?
I.2. What makes a deep character? The fandom definition!
So what is a deep hole like? Basically, it's:
- dark and cold. The light does not reach the more profound parts. If it does, then it's not deep enough.
- and it's hard to get out of. Once you're in a hole, you're stuck in it. A good way to test the depth of a hole is to attempt to get out of it. The more miserably you fail, the deeper the hole is.
- weak characters don't count by the way.
Itachi is "deep." Indeed, he's a psycho who's dark and cold. His background is darker and colder, not to mention dead.
Deidara and Kisame, by contrast, aren't "deep", because although they're every bit as psycho as Itachi, they well... smile much more. Kabuto is an exception, because even his smiles are cold and fake (consider them fluorescent light?). And now that Itachi has degrading eyesight, that makes him so much less of a "flat" character and much more of a multi-dimensional "deep" character (since he's in a "hole" he can't get out of).
Sasuke is the "deepest", because he's dark and cold too, as is his background, and he's unable to get out of the hole he's stuck in. Sure, he's tried, but the fact that he's failed shows just how "deep" he is! If he were to succeed, he wouldn't be "deep" at all!
Is Naruto "deep"? He sure fits many of the criterias. But light doesn't reach a dark place and Naruto's always cheerful. So obviously, he isn't deep at all. Unless he's crying his eyes out or is taken over by Kyuubi, that is.
Sakura? Nah. She's also too cheerful, unless she's crying around Sasuke. And she's "normal", she's on the surface, not in a hole. She doesn't even have anything to climb out of. Sure, she's climbing Something, but it's not really out of a hole (or rather, she doesn't Have to be in the hole), so she's shallow.
Gaara? He used to be deep. But he's climbed out of the hole since so now he's flat and boring. Same with Neji. Fortunately, Kakashi is still angsting about Obito, and now about team 7, so he's deep.
Gai and Lee though! They're the ultimate shallow. See, Lee (and Gai to a lesser degree) all started in their own "holes" since they were all losers, but they never let it get to them. They never fell deep enough into the hole, indeed they got right out and are basking in the light. So yeah, they're shallow.
Ino! Same thing. Shallow prostitute. What? Her friendship with Sakura? It wasn't a hole. So she's still shallow. Tenten has no hole of her own either.
Jiraiya wasn't deep until we got the bit about his failure with Orochimaru, his own "hole", that he never managed to climb out of, so to say. Tsunade climbed out of her hole too well, so now she's just a shallow bimbo who doesn't deserve to be Hokage. Unless she's angsting about team Legendary Sannin in fanfics.
I.3. What makes a deep relationship? The fandom definition bis!
Interestingly enough, the definition of "depth" when concerning a relationship is somewhat different from the one that applies to characters. I've personally distinguished several scenarios:
- one of the partner is in or is falling into a deep hole. Often, that first hole is a burial hole, ie the person is dead. You can't get deeper than dead (though you can get close), nobody's getting out of That one. Of course, this affects the other in a multitude of ways, usually making him fall into his own hole.
- one of the partners drags or pushes the other into a deep hole. The first partner doesn't Necessarily have to be in a hole first, but it helps. In this case, it's about the same as the above scenario.
- the two are or have been in the same deep hole.
The last one actually presents an interesting scenario: two characters who have been in the same hole can negate each other's individual "holes," yet the relationship itself will still be considered "deep," as long as the individual holes were deep enough in the past. It seems like the chronological aspect matters less here?
So the relationship between Haku and Zabuza is deep. Because one of them dies, and that drags the second one into a "hole" of depression. Then he dies too. Can't get deeper!
The relationship between Chiyo and Sasori is deep as well, since Sasori was quite dead in his own way (can't be saved) and not getting better. Chiyo died too! Yosh!
And let's not forget Kakashi and Obito. Where did Rin go by the way?
The relationship between Naruto and any of those he's converted or inspired (Hinata, Neji, Gaara, um... maybe not Sai) is deep. After all, Hinata was deep, Neji was deep, Gaara was deep, Naruto was in the same hole, you can't get deeper. Yeah. It's even deeper than say... Naruto and Sakura (sure there's the 'Sasuke' hole now but Sakura herself isn't deep anyway) and Gai and Lee (because they're both happy. So the relationship can be a bunch of things, but nobody bothers to qualify is as "deep").
Neji and Hinata were in the same Hyuuga hole. And Neji tried to push Hinata into a burial hole when Hinata tried to get out. Can't get deeper than that. Yes, I know I'm making fun of my own fandom now, including of views of my own. But I have to be fair. *sob*
The relationship between Shikamaru and Chouji didn't seem deep until Chouji was willing to risk stepping into a burial hole to defend his friend's honour. Still, most people don't give this a second look.
Itachi and Sasuke! So deep. Itachi, who was deep as is, pushed Sasuke into a hole so deep that Sasuke can't get out of no matter what he tries. Sasuke dedicates his life to pushing Itachi into a burial hole. Deep!
The relationship between Naruto and Sasuke is one of the deepest as well. They were both in the same hole of loneliness. Together, too (uh...). Sasuke is now in his own hole (courtesy of Itachi). He tried to push Naruto into a burial hole, though failing that, Naruto still got dragged into a hole of his own (the Kyuubi 4-tails hole). Like, it's so deep, man!
The relationship between Sasuke and Sakura is, of course, much deeper than the relationship between Naruto and Sakura. See Sasuke is in the deeper hole, and Sakura keeps failing to drag him out. Instead, she falls into her own hole of feeling useless. So the relationship is deeper than NaruSaku, where all they do is drag each other out of holes, and are well-lit while doing that (*yawn*). Part II NaruSaku is coming close though.
Three-way relationships! The Legendary Sannin relationship is deep. It broke after all, Orochimaru might as well be dead (in the sense that he's not coming back and not getting redeemed), Tsunade fell into a hole of her own, Jiraiya nearly fell into a burial hole while trying to get Orochimaru back.
By contrast, "InoShikaChou parents" is just there. Sure, it's a nice formation, but Nobody will argue that it has the "depth" of the failed Legendary Sannin team (and not just because they're less famous).
II. My views on all this
Oh by the way, I remind you that this is a personal essay that's highly biased towards my own preferences. I am, after all, more explaining my own preferences than telling You what you should like (geh, why should I?).
II.1. Quick note: how holes aren't necessarily bad things (aka don't skin me yet!)
Eek! By now some of you probably want to lynch me for some of the characters and relationships I've apparently criticized! Don't kill me yet!
Holes aren't necessarily "bad" things. After all, they can be a good foundation for a more stable future. Or something. That's how buildings are built, after all, you make a big hole first to set foundations. Depends on what you want. You can't deny that "holes" serve as good motivations? Even Lee had his small hole in the beginning!
Though Huge holes aren't always necessary.
In fact way too deep holes are unnecessary. You don't need to make a 500 meters deep hole if all you want is say... stick a birdhouse in the ground. If the hole is too deep, you have to fill it up some before you can build anything on it.
Still, if the "depth" itself (in my opinion) does not define the value of the character, what would I rather prefer? Strength perhaps?
Do note: I am Not telling You what to look for in a character or relationship. I'm just defining what -I- want to look for. Different people have differences, some people like the holes for themselves.
II.2. Alternative definition #1: High?
In opposition to "deep", maybe "high" can be used. In opposition to "hole", we'd be looking at mountains or buildings. Some of these can be built from a hole and end up higher thanks to the motivation and foundation (or something). So... looking at how "high" a character is?
Gai and Lee are high. So far I'm happy.
Wait, this makes Yondaime and Naruto the "highest" character, right? Actually, I have another word for Naruto, and that's "badly-written." I find him so Static sometimes though. ;_; Like he's strong just for the sake of being strong and able to tell up everyone. It's like he's sitting at the top of the mountain from the very beginning.
And as for Yondy, I think he's uh... a Gary Stu. Sorry!
And some of my favourite characters don't fit this definition at all. Sakura and Hinata are my two favourite characters for a similar reason actually, but I can't exactly say they're the "highest." Sakura is still far from the offensive level of her teammates, Hinata wasn't exactly the strongest either and is nowhere near Naruto's character "strength."
So maybe "high" isn't the word I'm looking for in terms of individual characters?
In terms of relationships though, "high" fits well! I don't support Too many relationships that don't at least have the potential to be high!
NaruSaku and LeeHina are couples I think can be incredibly "high"! =D
So are more down-to-Earth couples such as KibaIno (the interactions would be plenty, in any case)! =D
The Gai/Lee Teacher/Student relationships is high as well!
And InoShikaChou! *heart*
There's still the problem of individual characters though. Maybe another word should be used than "high"?
II.3. Alternative definition #2: Climber!
So now, instead of a static location, I define the character according to the amount of movement they are capable of performing! =D After all, who cares where the car is, as long as it can get to another location? I guess I could use "builder" too, but I prefer "climb"...
So now, with the climber definition, you no longer have to worry about where a character starts! =D It can be at the bottom of a hole (Lee and Hinata for example?), on the surface ground (Sakura), or even on a mountain (Neji maybe?)! It doesn't matter which height you are at! Which height you manage to climb to doesn't really matter either! All that matters is that you do climb higher than where you started! =D
So Lee and Gai started with a hole in terms of strength. Lee had no ninjutsu, no genjutsu, and below-average taijutsu. But through continuous climbing he's managed to reach the surface and even manage to make a good way up the mountain! Power of Youth! =D
Hinata started out in a huge hole in terms of internal (and external, of course) strength. But since then she's managed to gain a bit of self-confidence, and has since made chuunin, so she's managed to climb to the surface at least! =D Giving how deep the starting hole was (ie how Bad she was, lol), I'd say she did a good job just getting to level...
Sakura started on the ground surface. Normal girl, not too bad for a girl but not a powerhouse either, whatever. She's stumbled into a few holes because of her teammates too. For her teammates though, she's now climbing mountains. =D
I like Neji because I perceive him as humble. Although he's already a genius, thus a good way up the mountain, he still perceives his limitations and thus works hard to keep improving. He's also started out in a hole in terms of morales, but when he got dragged out of it I liked how much he willingly embraced the upwards movement this time. I guess the same could be said of Gaara? (I like Gaara less because I see him as too much of a powerhouse. Those tend to scare me off for some reason... but it's just a matter of personal preference, really!)
Naruto? Sure he started out a "loser", but in terms of morale and determination he's just about at the top of the mountain, only occasionally tumbling but then climbing right back up. =\ In terms of strength, don't make me laugh... it may seem that he was low, but he's always had a convenient ladder in the form of Kyuubi...
So those are my views on "climber" characters. *dodges rotten tomatoes because of obvious bias*
In terms of relationships, a "climber" relationship would however fit a somewhat different definition (for me): it doesn't matter where you start. But um... where you end up still usually matters. :S I define "climber" for a relationship as:
- one is capable of pulling the other higher (more points for mutual!)
- the two are capable of edifying something else together (yeah, something of a builder scenario)
NaruSaku is a relationship I consider the ultimate anti-hole climber! It didn't exactly start at a brilliant level, but they have the ability to pull each other higher or prevent each other from falling. At the time of this essay, my NaruSaku manifesto hasn't been completed yet, but once it is this part will be more fully addressed there.
NejiHina I find has some climber potential. It's one of those things I find came out of a big hole but have the potential to build into more. So it's a climber with foundations to help go higher. Specifically, I think they'll be ideal to jointly heal up the Hyuuga clan. But that's just me.
LeeHina is a climber that'd actually start high! (in terms of attitude towards each other. At least they've never tried to kill each other) Then they can climb higher together on the mountain of Youth as they help each other become stronger! Yosh! =D
Gai and Lee is a teacher-student climber relationship! =D
KibaIno doesn't climb much, but I'd find it starting at a good enough level as is. ^^;
InoChou, interestingly enough, is the one pairing I support that's "climber", but not "high." My vision of InoChou is actually fandom-based and angst-based. Basically, Ino, as a Kunoichi in every sense of the word (undercover, seduction, the lot), might end up rotting from within (she can't just quit either, it's her job and someone has to do it). That's where Chouji, with his kindness and the ability to value that which is beyond appearances, might provide a refuge of support and honesty for her. So it's a "climber" in the sense that it'd prevent Ino from falling further.
At the opposite of the spectrum, you'd obviously get "fallers". Some start from the ground and just tumble a bit, some manage to start midway up the mountain then fall all the way into a deep hole. lol. Sucks to be them.
Among obvious "fallers" you have Sasuke. The fact that he had started to climb up some means he's had to fall that much harder. lol. He's caught himself partly though, now he's hanging in there somewhere.
The Legendary Sannin ties is also a faller. Actually, I find this interesting too.
Conclusion
So there we have it. Apart from the traditonal "deep", I also look to things I qualify as "high" and "climber" (lol @ cheesy language rape). Of course, I'm not telling the rest of you want to look for, either.
- catastrophe scenarios can be interesting in themselves
- catastrophe scenarios (or just initially bad ones) can be the foundations for something more healthy later on
- looking at something in a high location can be fun as well
- some things can be interesting to observe as they slowly improve, even if they don't end up at the highest of places
- some things that are tumbling the whole way down can be hilarious entertaining to observe as well.
*pause*
Of course, instead of "high" and "climber", I could have just used "strong" and "that improves" (or something), but that's boring. ^^
OMG EDIT: Hey everyone! Be sure not to miss ew-younerd's essays in the comments section! *__* Also known as: What happens when you write an essay that makes you think "Hey Tati could have written this I wonder what she'd have said? =D"
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