notes on narrative in a vidding context

Feb 03, 2004 23:21

laurashapiro asked: What's narrative? What follows are my tentative notes towards a possible answer (or several). Dialogue welcome.

In A Glossary of Literary Terms, M.H. Abrams defines narrative as "a story, whether told in prose or verse, involving events, characters, and what the characters say and do." This definition is accurate as far as it goes, but it' ( Read more... )

vidding: meta, vid: superstar, vid: come on, vidding: process, narrative

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Comments 71

coffeeandink February 4 2004, 13:07:01 UTC
Lovely. No time to talk now, but you may also want to look at Joanna Russ's attempts to distinguish among lyric, chronological, and epic modes in novels in one of the essays in To Write Like A Woman

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heresluck February 4 2004, 15:26:04 UTC
Thank you. And dammit, because the Russ is on my list of things to get, but my favorite used bookstore's entire room of Books On Books is currently packed up and waiting to be moved. Argh. If I check it out from the library I can't write in it.

Post-it notes it is, then.

Also, thank goodness someone else is using the term "lyric." I feel better.

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Re: coffeeandink February 4 2004, 15:39:05 UTC
Ah, I knew I sent this to someone in a letter ( ... )

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Re: coffeeandink February 4 2004, 22:42:11 UTC
Okay -- having reread this and read the comments so far, I have to agree with Laura that every vid is an "argument vid." I suspect that what you're calling straightforward narrative vids are just vids whose arguments are relatively close to the particular argument privileged by the canonical source -- or particularly close to the argument privileged by the viewer. That is, bonibaru's "Hallelujah" has an argument -- it just happens to be the argument that Mal Reynolds' love for Serenity is what keeps him alive and replaces the faith he lost during the war, which happens to be one of the primary arguments that concerns "Out of Gas" itself. If the vid argued instead that Mal replaced his connections with fragile human beings with an apparently easier and safer connection to a spaceship, which he'd (erroneously) believed would never die on him the same way, then that would be more *obviously* an argument vid -- but not *more* of an argument. ('Male' is a gender. 'White' is a race. 'Canon' is an argument. Make sense ( ... )

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sockkpuppett February 4 2004, 14:21:37 UTC
This comment is for your amusement only.

I think I sort of knew this stuff, but I'd never be able to articulate it like this. In my liquid brain, I'm frighteningly organized, i.e., I scare myself, in how I think about vidding, but it's difficult for me to relate/translate it into literary terms. Thanks.

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PS sockkpuppett February 4 2004, 14:22:27 UTC
... or any other verbal terms, now that I had another sip of coffee.

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heresluck February 4 2004, 15:33:08 UTC
I think a lot of us know this stuff in some subterranean way; I think it's what fuels a lot of our decision-making processes in vidding. But it *is* hard to talk about. We fall so easily into that "I know it when I see it" thing.

I want to have more community conversations about vidding - not for the sake of agreeing about things, because that would be boring, but to develop enough of a language that we're communicating rather than talking past each other. Genre seems like a good place to start, because the ways in which vids are divided up (the vidshows at VividCon, for example, or the categories in the BVMD) have little or nothing to do with the way I think about genre, and yet I think genre can be a useful way of talking about intentions and effects in vids, just as in other visual and written texts.

Our of curiosity, do you think the distinctions I'm making work in your own vids? Are there vids of yours that you could or would characterize as primarily narrative, lyric, or argument? Are there categories I'm missing?

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Re: sockkpuppett February 4 2004, 22:44:16 UTC
I've been ruminating on this all day. I believe vidding is a singular medium that uses several different media, all with different working vocabularies. Trying to bridge that gap is daunting ( ... )

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elynross February 4 2004, 17:36:50 UTC
I don't think it would guarantee discussion, but I'd encourage you to crosspost things like this to vidder and/or vidding, to reach a (theoretically) wider audience of vidders and vid-groupies. Wonderful post!

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heresluck February 5 2004, 01:38:25 UTC
Thank you! And thanks for the x-posting reminder; tzikeh and I covered this between us. *g*

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Wow. laurashapiro February 4 2004, 18:55:13 UTC
I should use my vidding icon, but I'm just so happy about this post, I think an exuberant Chiana is the best choice ( ... )

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Re: Wow. coffeeandink February 4 2004, 22:58:01 UTC
I've posted my take on "argument vids" above, but:

and I haven't seen vrya's vids, but I'm having trouble imagining character studies as lyric

startles me! You should definitely take a look at Vrya's vids as soon as you have a spare moment; I think they will interest you extremely.

Hmm. One could do a very instructive comparison of Vrya's "Schism" to your "Transparent" as two very different but equally valid and moving ways of doing character studies, one lyric and one narrative. Or maybe "The Killer in Me" vs. "Transparent," since they're both Willow-centric, and what you lose from "Killer" being a bit more narrative, you'd gain by being able to contrast two different ways of vidding about the same character.

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Re: Wow. laurashapiro February 5 2004, 01:10:17 UTC
Thanks for the info. Now that I've looked at her site, I see I do know her "21 Vidlets," thanks to heres_luck -- we were unable to show it in our Song Choice panel at Vividcon last year, which I have always regretted.

The thing about me and vids is, I hate downloading them. I have a dial-up connection at home. My work connection is fast, but then it's all about what I can do on the sly. And I always get so much more out of a vid on a TV or con screen than I do from the little RealPlayer or WMV or Quicktime window.

::taking a moment to pray for universal broadband::

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Re: Wow. renenet February 5 2004, 03:23:12 UTC
I'm a high speed internet junkie, so I can only imagine your frustrations trying to download vids online. And I totally agree that vids on TV or con screens are much the superior way to watch vids. But when vids aren't available that way or ever likely to be, and when they're as stylistically distinctive and thought-provoking as vrya's vids are, then I have to second Mely's recommendation that "I think they will interest you extremely" in a way that's worth the extra effort. "21 Vidlets" is amusing, but it's not representative of vrya's style in the way that "Sleep Alone," "Schism," and even "The Killer in Me" are.

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More wow. laurashapiro February 4 2004, 18:55:35 UTC
You say above:
I'm not at all sure that there's a clear distinction between argument vids and other types of vid from the audience's point of view - I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on that - but it's an important (if sometimes blurry) distinction for me as a vidder. "Here is what happened when Spike fell in love with Buffy" is a narrative; "Here is why Buffy's sleeping with Spike was a bad choice" is an argument.And what I'm saying is that I have seen very few vids that are simply "Here is what happened when Spike fell in love with Buffy." Maybe there are a lot of vids out there that simply tell a story without any particular agenda or point to make about that story, but I haven't seen many of them. Certainly not Spuffy vids ( ... )

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