Something I noticed about 7x12 and a random comment about Castiel

[hells_half_acre]

So, I timelined 7x12 yesterday...

Comments

[sgmajorshipper]

I always thought both of them were jerks to each other in S6. Cas buried his humanity and became a dick with wings, just like his siblings, and Dean used Cas and acted like a stubborn idiot sometimes. Neither of which is surprising. Cas has only learned about "humanity" from the Winchesters, and when he was observing them, Dean and Sam were going through their roughest time, ever. So not only did he learn some shitty ways to treat people you "care about" from them, he also had his ingrained angel dickishness. And, honestly, there's nobody to tell him what's right and wrong, especially in S6, because he again sees himself as better than Dean and no longer relates to Dean's cause. He really does act like a child, which isn't all that surprising. Also, he fucking hurt Sam. People have died from doing that. But, yeah. I mean, no relationship on this show is perfect by a long shot, but it is kinda interesting how a lot of people seem to set up Cas as the one who's long-suffering of Dean's problem, when, in reality, they're both pretty

[hells_half_acre]

Yes, exactly

[sgmajorshipper]

Yeah, I agree. S5 was about how everyone, good and bad, came together in the face of the end of the world. But it all kinda fell apart in S6.

Oh, I agree. Cas is really selective about his choices on when he comes. Though I think he was avoiding Dean because he couldn't handle Dean's questions and selfishly didn't want to deal with Dean's emotions, not when he was trying so hard to avoid any remnants of his own humanity. It was easier for him to cut ties. He can say it was because he was busy fighting his war, but I think it was because he was still cutting out all humanity and trying to hide his deal

[hells_half_acre]

I never saw Cas as a divisive character until this season...and then all of a sudden it was quite apparent he was. I always assumed it was because a lot of people started watching in S4, and just didn't realize that he was another supporting character who was subject to the same faults and ultimate fate as any other supporting character...but then, I have absolutely nothing to base that assumption on

[liliaeth]

You're not the only one.

I mean, I realize that Cas had a hard time, but Dean did offer to help, it's not his fault that Cas chose not to take that help and decided to lie to him about Crowley instead.

[hells_half_acre]

Exactly! :)

Sigh...

[mekina]

I can definitely see how crappy Castiel was to Dean and Sam as well. Plus, I LOATHE Castiel. Not happy about him coming back at all, and if Dean forgives him, I will scream. Loudly.

[hells_half_acre]

It will definitely be interesting to see how it all plays out. It's funny, because I think Cas-fans firmly believe that EVERYBODY LOVES Cas...or, at least, they carry on as if they do. I guess it just goes to prove that the show really can't please everyone. I'm sure that whatever happens, it'll make for an interesting story - but I too hope that Dean doesn't just forgive Castiel.

[galwithglasses]

That's pretty much how I felt about it.  The two things that Dean has had the hardest time forgiving Sam for were that Sam abandoned him when he left for college and that he chose a demon over Dean.  Here's Cas doing the same thing - abandoning Dean in his grief and choosing Crowley over Dean.  On top of that, he did the Unforgivable and hurt Sam both with the souless rescue and then knocking down the wall.  He also put Lisa and Ben in danger.  I  don't think Dean got to be friends with Cas until they were fighting the same battle and Cas was becoming more human.  Cas still had that basic obnoxious angel nature but it was tempered.  Once he got powered up again, he seemed to lose whatever humanity he had gained.  He wasn't really the same Cas that Dean was friends with.  He'd gone back to the whole "I got you out of hell and I'll dump you back" attitude.  Maybe this reflects that I only found Cas likeable when his grace was going

[hells_half_acre]

My favourite Castiel was also "Falling Castiel"...and I think you're right, that Dean really only started to like Castiel as a friend when Castiel was more human. And that's something that Castiel lost when he went fully to war with Raphael and made the deal. I think Castiel also had to act superior to Dean in order to make himself believe that he knew what was best and Dean didn't.

And yes, Dean is harsh with everyone. I don't think he was more harsh with Castiel than he is with Sam or Bobby, or anyone... the difference is that for some reasons cas-fans seem to coddle Castiel more, and suddenly Dean's being made out to be a villain, when really, he's just Dean. Dean's always been flawed and harsh... it's not like it was an exceptionally cruel behaviour reserved only for Castiel. :P

Anyway, yes. Agreed.

[khek]

Obviously, you're not the only one, but I'll just add my voice to the chorus

[hells_half_acre]

(And I also remember a scene where Dean said he begged for Castiel to come down during that year, but I don't remember which episode.)

Oh good, I'm not the only one. I was beginning to think I had gone insane.

I agree with everything, of course. I think Castiel learned just enough humanity to be the equivalent of a five-year old, as Dean so often tries to express. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. I definitely don't want Castiel to be the wronged party, that's for sure. I'd be fine if Dean still was sentimental and WANTED to have a friendship with Castiel, but in my opinion, Dean doesn't need to apologize for anything. :P