Occlumency question...

[skriftlig]

Hi! I have a question about how MAGIC works in Harry Potter's our world.

Specifically, do you need a wand for Occlumency? I know this sort of thing has probably been discussed a lot, but I haven't seen this specific case mentioned before

Comments

[slumber]

I love questions like this! I read through the entries in the Lexicon and the HP Wiki and both suggest Occlumency is more of a mental skill, the act of closing one's mind to others' intrusions. In the HP Wiki, Snape is pictured using a wand, but that was him attempting to look into Harry's mind using Legilimency. Whether THAT needs a wand, though, could be up for debate.

[skriftlig]

Lol! Yes, wandless Legilimency is probably the harder question!

[literaryspell]

I don't thiiink so--but then you think of Legilimency, in which case it WOULD seem to make sense that you'd use a wand--yet the two are very similar, so why one and not the other?

Haha you're welcome for the non-answer. *shakes head* Sorry!

[skriftlig]

Haha! I wonder if there even is an actual answer! I agree you would sort of expect them to have the same wand requirements, as they are very similar.

[naturegirlrocks]

I believe Occlumency is a wandless skill, like some form of meditation or mind-training. I associate this with torture victims 'closing down' their bodies/minds to not feel the pain.

About Legitimenciy, I think that is a mental skill too, but the wand helps to focus.

[skriftlig]

I agree with you about the wand. I think it's a focusing tool that makes casting magic it easier, but it's not always necessary.

[vaysh]

In the Occlumency lessons that Snape gives Harry in OotP, it says:

ʹYes, Potter,ʹ [Snape] said, his eyes glinting. That is my job. Now, if you are ready, we will start again.ʹ
He raised his wand. ʹOne - two ‐ three ‐ Legilimenslʹ
A hundred Dementors were swooping towards Harry across the lake in the grounds… he screwed up his face in concentration… they were coming closer… he could see the dark holes beneath their hoods… yet he could also see Snape standing in front of him, his eyes fixed on Harryʹs face, muttering under his breath… and somehow, Snape was growing clearer, and the Dementors were growing fainter…
Harry raised his own wand.

and

ʹSo,ʹ he said. ʹHave you been practising?ʹ
ʹYes,ʹ Harry lied, looking carefully at one of the legs of Snapeʹs desk.
ʹWell, weʹll soon find out, wonʹt we?ʹ said Snape smoothly. ʹWand out, Potter.ʹ
It seems very clear here that you need a wand both for Legilimency and Occlumency

[skriftlig]

OMG, thank you! I must never leave the house without a copy of OotP again.

I didn't realise Snape told Harry so explicitly to use his wand. That clears that up! My guess would be that Harry, as a beginner, needs the wand to learn the skill. Or Snape doesn't want to admit that Harry's a pretty powerful wizard!

I also think Snape must have mastered wandless Occlumency to be able to fool Voldemort and I suspect (with no real evidence) that he could perform Legilimency wandlessly too. I think there are several places where it's hinted at in the books (by Dumbledore and Voldemort as well as Snape).

[brissygirl]

I think Snape telling Harry to have his wand out was so that he could defend himself if he felt it was necessary. I distinctly remember Harry casting a shield charm at one point which threw Snape out of his mind.

It has been a long time since I've read the books, so I might be getting movie and book canon confused. :)

[vaysh]

It is true that Harry casts a Protego in the second scene. But clearly, Snape did not mean for him to use a defensive spell. Harry is casting the Shield Charm because he doesn't know how to Occlude his mind against Snape's Legilimency. Snape is teaching him how to do Occlumency, and for that he tells him to take out his wand.

[deirdre_aithne]

I think Legilimency requires a wand (or at the very least, extreme skills to do it wandlessly) because there's actually an incantation to perform it. Where Occlumency was just closing off your mind from the invasion and we're never told Harry has to do anything other than focus on not letting Snape in to his mind.

So yeah, I'd say Occlumency doesn't use a wand at all, where Legilimency would.

[skriftlig]

Good point! I didn't realise there was an incantation. I agree Occlumency seems somehow less active than Legilimency.