I don't get it. How can she be a Sue when she's barely in the books? Is it because she didn't get it on with Snape? Because she had every right to dump someone who was giving her shit for being a Muggleborn. At least James loved her for who she was. 'Sue' seems to be fanbrat code for 'anyone we don't like'.
'Sue' seems to be fanbrat code for 'anyone we don't like'. Yeah, exactly. "Mary Sue" means "female character I hate", and "emo" means "male character I hate". Regardless of whether they really have those traits or not. That's why I hate those kind of etiquettes.
As a firm Snape/Lily shipper (the only non-canon pairing I've ever found interesting), I have to say this is bullshit. Lily did nothing but try to help out in the books, I mean she sacrificed her life to save her son. If she had destroyed Voldemort, I would be inclined to agree, but she didn't. She died with Voldemort barely lifting a finger. How is that Mary Sue?
Ugh. People can be so stupid. I hate character bashing so much, mainly because people change the character to fit their ideas of who they are, which are usually completely wrong. Read the damn books, people. She was not a Mary Sue.
Don't be surprised. Mary Sue has become a code for "female character that I don't like because she 'steals my guy', 'is prettier than I am', etc", so it would've been weirder if she did NOT get hit with the "bitch" or "Sue" paddle for not sucking up to Snape.
Also, can I tell the HP fandom that James wasn't a Complete Monster who raped Snapey-kins during his worst memory and later abused Lily into submission? Yes, he was no saint, but the guy later gave his life to give Lily and baby!Harry the chance to survive, and he became an Animagus to keep company to poor Lupin. Complete Monster he ain't, and yet the Snape fangirls say he was one.
People call Lily a Sue because characters are always saying how great Lily was. Yet nobody seems to take into account that these things are always said to Harry, after Lily's death. If you were talking to a kid about his dead mother, would you say she was a wonderful person? Of course you would! What kind of monster wouldn't, even if they didn't think so? It's not about JKR trying to make Lily look good, it's about her giving the other characters realistic dialogue, and it is most definitely realistic for anyone to speak well of a dead woman to her teenage child.
Hatred of Lily is a deep, deep rabbit hole in this fandom with huge labyrinthine passage ways soaked in sexism and lined with the corroded wreckage of a sunken ship, a ship that was never meant to sail in the first place.
Really, the best way to define a Mary Sue is by her effect on the plot. An actual Sue sucks the tension out of a story because of her perfection; she always knows exactly what to do to beat the bad guy, resolve the situation, save the day, etc. It's not about being 'too nice' or 'too pretty' or 'too powerful', not that Lily is any of these things. Lily's role in the story is integral, to be sure, but it's so small that any claim to her being a Mary Sue is laughable.
Hatred of Lily is a deep, deep rabbit hole in this fandom with huge labyrinthine passage ways soaked in sexism and lined with the corroded wreckage of a sunken ship, a ship that was never meant to sail in the first place.
Now I'm wondering, if the friendship was between two guys, say Liam and Severus, would the reaction be different?
And can you imagine what it'd be like if the Weasley twins were female? The Weasley twins are well-loved (I like them too). While they aren't Stus, the fact that they are popular, great Quidditch players, and sometimes bullies, might lead some people to call them Sues if they were female. I've noticed that a bunch of the Weasleys have gotten a fair amount of hate, namely Molly, Percy, Ron, and Ginny (I'm not sure about Arthur), but the Weasley twins seemed to have escaped it...
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'Sue' seems to be fanbrat code for 'anyone we don't like'.
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Yes! A character can be unlikeable without being a Sue.
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Yeah, exactly. "Mary Sue" means "female character I hate", and "emo" means "male character I hate". Regardless of whether they really have those traits or not. That's why I hate those kind of etiquettes.
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Ugh. People can be so stupid. I hate character bashing so much, mainly because people change the character to fit their ideas of who they are, which are usually completely wrong. Read the damn books, people. She was not a Mary Sue.
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Also, can I tell the HP fandom that James wasn't a Complete Monster who raped Snapey-kins during his worst memory and later abused Lily into submission? Yes, he was no saint, but the guy later gave his life to give Lily and baby!Harry the chance to survive, and he became an Animagus to keep company to poor Lupin. Complete Monster he ain't, and yet the Snape fangirls say he was one.
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Really, the best way to define a Mary Sue is by her effect on the plot. An actual Sue sucks the tension out of a story because of her perfection; she always knows exactly what to do to beat the bad guy, resolve the situation, save the day, etc. It's not about being 'too nice' or 'too pretty' or 'too powerful', not that Lily is any of these things. Lily's role in the story is integral, to be sure, but it's so small that any claim to her being a Mary Sue is laughable.
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Now I'm wondering, if the friendship was between two guys, say Liam and Severus, would the reaction be different?
And can you imagine what it'd be like if the Weasley twins were female? The Weasley twins are well-loved (I like them too). While they aren't Stus, the fact that they are popular, great Quidditch players, and sometimes bullies, might lead some people to call them Sues if they were female. I've noticed that a bunch of the Weasleys have gotten a fair amount of hate, namely Molly, Percy, Ron, and Ginny (I'm not sure about Arthur), but the Weasley twins seemed to have escaped it...
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