By now anyone who follows my LJ has to know I like to read books on writing. I didn’t buy this one, but when while skimming I saw this list, I had to write it down and share
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In a way, I can think of one. Well, kinda two. From what I read, the trope isn't just about mistaken identity but secret identity or disguises--like "Some Like It Hot" or "Tootsie" (or "As You Like It" to take a more exalted example.) So in that tradition we can include Friendlyquark's A Terrible Temptation where Snape temporarily switches identities with Harry, or Abby and Domina's The Fire and the Rose where Snape and Hermione switch identies and bodies. Both would definately make it on my short list of top favorite stories in the ship.
One of my older plot bunnies was reminiscent of Twelfth Night, where Hermione, desperate to learn all she can about potions from Severus Snape, disguises herself as a boy and somehow convinces him to take her on as his apprentice, because, of course, he would refuse her normally or perhaps there's some antiquated potions law that that potions masters can only pass their craft on to males.
Then, as she's in a unique situation, and because Snape thinks she's a boy, he's a lot more becomes relaxed around her than he would normally be - he finds he likes the companionship of his new apprentice and opens up to her. She in turn gets to see a less inhibited Snape and falls in love with him, but can't act on her feelings etc etc
In the end there's the big reveal and all the angst and drama that follows when Snape finds out who she is and then really realises that he loves her etc.
When you think about it, it's a little scary how easily most stories in the ship fit one mold or the other. Though I think I've read more Snape in Peril hurt/comfort than ones where Hermione's the "Woman in Jeopardy"--but she's usually the comforter, not the rescuer.
I read that book! I checked it out from the library when I started betaing. It is an excellent book on MARKETING a romance fic. It's where I got the term "secret baby fic" to describe a romance where the woman has a kid w/o the guy knowing it. I love forced romance and I hate secret baby stories, but as that book tells you...there is a market for it. I also like the rules of what is a no-no in the market, such as rape. You can see from the wank that it doesnt work for fanfic romance either. You want reviews? Put the book into practice. It works.
What I also like is the "frog-prince", it is perfect for SS/HG and we see it alot, but it is mixed in with other style types.
I didn't read the whole book, was really just skimming for what it might say about writing love scenes when I saw this list. I remember you mentioning the "Secret Baby" trope in chat.
I hate forced romance. I think it shows a failure of imagination and lack of condidence in this pairing that people can't find a less contrived way to bring them together. Besides, I like my romance to have some basis in reality, and traditional gender roles notwithstanding, I think forcing people together is a poor way to start a relationship.
And I like SS/HG for the ways they are similar and compliment each other. I think you need Marriage Law more to explain what could keep Hermione and Ron together forever than bring Snape and Hermione together.
As for rapefic, yes, it causes wank cuz every once in a while because those of us who despise periodically have enough of the squeeing and start squawking. But note it usually comes as a reaction to squee--I can--but won't--name a lot of sickeningly praised and much-reviewed rapefic. Hinge of Fate aside
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Of course the market doesn't always hold true, but the folks doing the dummy book did their research. The romance industry exists to make a profit and sell books, they know what sells. I read fanfic because in SS/HG I think the writing is better and I like the magic.
I've been exposed to real forced marriages (e.g. India), but they are not as brutal as the marriage law challenge devices. But we just disagree in taste :) on forced marriage bit. Plus you site excellent examples of good MLCs.
Now the dummy book does explain levels of sex in a romance, and the market for them. These are "gradients" of romance, and each has a market. The dummy book also tells of the evolution of romance as women now work and get divorced (at 50% rates now). The "secret baby fic" was invented to appeal to single working mothers. You won't find the felmale protagonists of the early 80s in books published in 2006, those won't sell.
It goes alot into explaining why we like Hermione, she is very modern and opinionated and smart.
I think that MLC got so big, it became almost a rite of passage to come up with a way to make the cliche work--and I haven't been able to stay away completely, because with so many there is something of a fascination to see where someone would take it. Its part of the charm of having common challenges circulate in the ship--though I truly do think this one NEEDS TO DIE!!!
But yes, I adore Helga's and would dearly love to see it finished some day.
I do know romance is huge. I forget the statistics, but I think its about half of book sales. That's a HUGE chunk. Supposedly Diana Gabaldon originally wanted to sell her novel as sci-fi, but was told it would sell for much more as a romance--so she said "call me a romance writer."
What you say above does sound interesting, and maybe I'll give the book another look. I have to admit, its not a genre I much like or ever read much of. In my teen years, it was sci-fi and mystery I ate up, not romance and "Harlequin" to me was and is a dirty word
Heh. I didn't think of Thirty Pieces of Silver as an example of number 7, but you're right, it fits. And yes, it is boss/employee, but it reverses the usual dynamic there and so I think lifts it above being cliched. I do like the odd story that can manage that. Look at the MLC stories I mention as favs above? There are plenty Master/Apprentic SS/HG fics--not that many where Hermione holds the authority.
And btw, when can we see an update of that? Hmmmm? Enquiring minds want to know. I promise not to inform on you with Skeeter.
Okay, sga_flashfic" had a "harlequin" callenge a while back that produced AMAZING stories. Yeah, I know. I wouldn't have believed it either. including some "forced together" stories and some "reunited" stories that are SO GOOD. I would never have thought I'd like these kinds of stories, but... I am losing my soul to Stargate: Atlantis. What can I say?
(Did I mention I got the first season on DVD for my birthday? Uh-oh.)
LOL. It worked. Though now you're scaring me we could lose you to SGA. Can you do that to Draco? :points to icon:
So, are any of these common in DM/HG or Snupin ad nauseum? Way too many SS/HG fall into "marriage of convenience" or "forced to love/or see love by a potion" or Time-turner or Hermione as nurse/caregiver to a suffering Severus. Anything like that you notice in DM/HG?
Well, if someone, say... you, were to write a 50,000 word D/Hr epic for NaNoWriMo, my love for all things Draco would probably come back full force. :)
I can think of one or two potions stories, though they're smutty sexcapades, can't think of any forced marriages (though doesn't bunney have a pretty famous one, I think?) Not a lot of this kind of stuff in D/Hr, at least not that I'm aware of. Now if you wanna give me a cliche, I'm all about Draco/Hermione head boy/head girl stories. Mmmm...
Wow, you’ve really put a lot of thought into where which stories fit. I do agree with you on your assessment of romance as a separate genera - I far prefer romance as a way to enhance an already strong plot, as opposed to the romance as the main plot. Too many ‘romance’ novels seem to have no originality or plot to speak of. I find a good sci-fi or fantasy novel far more fulfilling. Smut, of course, is an entirely different matter.
The MLC had some interesting concepts, but far too many people seemed to simply use it as an excuse to avoid addressing the challenges of putting two very headstrong people such as Severus and Hermione together. When used as ‘instant plot’ the MLC became far too cliché. My favorites were usually those that attacked it from a different angle, many of which you’ve already listed.
Sooooo, when are you going to issue the ‘Romance for Dummies’ challenge, where the writer has to use at least seven of those plot types? ;-)
Wow, you’ve really put a lot of thought into where which stories fit.
I did probably overthink this huh? Otoh, look at tempest_dreams, comment above. lol. Not alone. What scared me is how easy it was--and first on the list? Man.
Too many ‘romance’ novels seem to have no originality or plot to speak of. I find a good sci-fi or fantasy novel far more fulfilling.
I can't think of a truly great romantic story that has started life on the romance aisle. I'd think that Gone With the Wind, The Far Pavilions, The Thorn Birds must have started in the ordinary fiction section. You can find Austen, Forster, Bronte is in the classics aisle, Sayers and King and Peters in mysteries, Bradley, McCaffrey among others in Sci-fi. So I'm with you there. But I think that's why I didn't recognize certain SS/HG tropes for what they are--and why this list was an eye-opener.
When used as ‘instant plot’ the MLC became far too cliché. My favorites were usually those that attacked it from a different angle, many of which you’ve already listed.And unaltered imo its an
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LOL. I'd rather have one where you're forbidden to use any of the above, except I fear BOS does have boss/employee in its way, and may later have "On the Run"
Is that a hint about the future? *smirks* Or just the obvious progression?
Only after the romance is recognized in a drama, does it get reclassified as romance. I personally still prefer at least a little hint of a plot as well.
Is that a hint about the future? *smirks* Or just the obvious progression?
I said "may"-and, after all, I have said I intend to continue BOS beyond the events of HBP so…
Only after the romance is recognized in a drama, does it get reclassified as romance. I personally still prefer at least a little hint of a plot as well.The best romances imo have more than romance going for them, and either avoid these tropes, have them be a minor element, or twist them and turn them inside out. I love “Tyger!” because the MLC is really a launching point-that story is about Snape, who he is, and how he came to be. And even though this Snape is sympathetic, and you could see Hermione grow to love him, he’s dark enough and immature enough that it would be hard seeing them come together another way
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Yes, the fics you listed are good ones.
One of my older plot bunnies was reminiscent of Twelfth Night, where Hermione, desperate to learn all she can about potions from Severus Snape, disguises herself as a boy and somehow convinces him to take her on as his apprentice, because, of course, he would refuse her normally or perhaps there's some antiquated potions law that that potions masters can only pass their craft on to males.
Then, as she's in a unique situation, and because Snape thinks she's a boy, he's a lot more becomes relaxed around her than he would normally be - he finds he likes the companionship of his new apprentice and opens up to her. She in turn gets to see a less inhibited Snape and falls in love with him, but can't act on her feelings etc etc
In the end there's the big reveal and all the angst and drama that follows when Snape finds out who she is and then really realises that he loves her etc.
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Oh, yeah, you don't get to pick the scenario of that. Hmmm. There's always NaNo. :cough:
Polyjuice has been used in some interesting ways though. There's Celisnebula An Unconventional Moment and LOTM's In Annulo.
When you think about it, it's a little scary how easily most stories in the ship fit one mold or the other. Though I think I've read more Snape in Peril hurt/comfort than ones where Hermione's the "Woman in Jeopardy"--but she's usually the comforter, not the rescuer.
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What I also like is the "frog-prince", it is perfect for SS/HG and we see it alot, but it is mixed in with other style types.
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I hate forced romance. I think it shows a failure of imagination and lack of condidence in this pairing that people can't find a less contrived way to bring them together. Besides, I like my romance to have some basis in reality, and traditional gender roles notwithstanding, I think forcing people together is a poor way to start a relationship.
And I like SS/HG for the ways they are similar and compliment each other. I think you need Marriage Law more to explain what could keep Hermione and Ron together forever than bring Snape and Hermione together.
As for rapefic, yes, it causes wank cuz every once in a while because those of us who despise periodically have enough of the squeeing and start squawking. But note it usually comes as a reaction to squee--I can--but won't--name a lot of sickeningly praised and much-reviewed rapefic. Hinge of Fate aside ( ... )
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I've been exposed to real forced marriages (e.g. India), but they are not as brutal as the marriage law challenge devices. But we just disagree in taste :) on forced marriage bit. Plus you site excellent examples of good MLCs.
Now the dummy book does explain levels of sex in a romance, and the market for them. These are "gradients" of romance, and each has a market. The dummy book also tells of the evolution of romance as women now work and get divorced (at 50% rates now). The "secret baby fic" was invented to appeal to single working mothers. You won't find the felmale protagonists of the early 80s in books published in 2006, those won't sell.
It goes alot into explaining why we like Hermione, she is very modern and opinionated and smart.
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I think that MLC got so big, it became almost a rite of passage to come up with a way to make the cliche work--and I haven't been able to stay away completely, because with so many there is something of a fascination to see where someone would take it. Its part of the charm of having common challenges circulate in the ship--though I truly do think this one NEEDS TO DIE!!!
But yes, I adore Helga's and would dearly love to see it finished some day.
I do know romance is huge. I forget the statistics, but I think its about half of book sales. That's a HUGE chunk. Supposedly Diana Gabaldon originally wanted to sell her novel as sci-fi, but was told it would sell for much more as a romance--so she said "call me a romance writer."
What you say above does sound interesting, and maybe I'll give the book another look. I have to admit, its not a genre I much like or ever read much of. In my teen years, it was sci-fi and mystery I ate up, not romance and "Harlequin" to me was and is a dirty word
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And btw, when can we see an update of that? Hmmmm? Enquiring minds want to know. I promise not to inform on you with Skeeter.
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I still think you count as a great plotter. Because I have no idea where its going--and I want to.
If you'd only update. *cough*
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But we are not alone doing this - I think there is plenty of stories combining Women in Jeopardy/Pregnant Heroine/Secret Baby plots XD
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(Did I mention I got the first season on DVD for my birthday? Uh-oh.)
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So, are any of these common in DM/HG or Snupin ad nauseum? Way too many SS/HG fall into "marriage of convenience" or "forced to love/or see love by a potion" or Time-turner or Hermione as nurse/caregiver to a suffering Severus. Anything like that you notice in DM/HG?
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I can think of one or two potions stories, though they're smutty sexcapades, can't think of any forced marriages (though doesn't bunney have a pretty famous one, I think?) Not a lot of this kind of stuff in D/Hr, at least not that I'm aware of. Now if you wanna give me a cliche, I'm all about Draco/Hermione head boy/head girl stories. Mmmm...
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The MLC had some interesting concepts, but far too many people seemed to simply use it as an excuse to avoid addressing the challenges of putting two very headstrong people such as Severus and Hermione together. When used as ‘instant plot’ the MLC became far too cliché. My favorites were usually those that attacked it from a different angle, many of which you’ve already listed.
Sooooo, when are you going to issue the ‘Romance for Dummies’ challenge, where the writer has to use at least seven of those plot types? ;-)
Reply
I did probably overthink this huh? Otoh, look at tempest_dreams, comment above. lol. Not alone. What scared me is how easy it was--and first on the list? Man.
Too many ‘romance’ novels seem to have no originality or plot to speak of. I find a good sci-fi or fantasy novel far more fulfilling.
I can't think of a truly great romantic story that has started life on the romance aisle. I'd think that Gone With the Wind, The Far Pavilions, The Thorn Birds must have started in the ordinary fiction section. You can find Austen, Forster, Bronte is in the classics aisle, Sayers and King and Peters in mysteries, Bradley, McCaffrey among others in Sci-fi. So I'm with you there. But I think that's why I didn't recognize certain SS/HG tropes for what they are--and why this list was an eye-opener.
When used as ‘instant plot’ the MLC became far too cliché. My favorites were usually those that attacked it from a different angle, many of which you’ve already listed.And unaltered imo its an ( ... )
Reply
Is that a hint about the future? *smirks* Or just the obvious progression?
Only after the romance is recognized in a drama, does it get reclassified as romance. I personally still prefer at least a little hint of a plot as well.
Reply
I said "may"-and, after all, I have said I intend to continue BOS beyond the events of HBP so…
Only after the romance is recognized in a drama, does it get reclassified as romance. I personally still prefer at least a little hint of a plot as well.The best romances imo have more than romance going for them, and either avoid these tropes, have them be a minor element, or twist them and turn them inside out. I love “Tyger!” because the MLC is really a launching point-that story is about Snape, who he is, and how he came to be. And even though this Snape is sympathetic, and you could see Hermione grow to love him, he’s dark enough and immature enough that it would be hard seeing them come together another way ( ... )
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