I admire people who can pull off drabbles. I seem to have been born to be long-winded. :-P
I happen to love first person. Maybe it was growing up reading a bunch of Mary Stewart and Victoria Holt novels, all of which (as far as I can recall) were written in first person. So where the hate comes from, I'm not sure. Actually, a couple of my most popular fics (not in HP fandom...hmm, actually, my Snape/OFC was alternating 1st/3rd) were written in first person, so I know it's not an automatic turnoff for everyone.
It's definitely the one that comes most easily to me, too. And even though QoM was third person, it was a tight third person that stuck with Hermione through the whole novel, so it came pretty close, too.
Maybe Renita will drop by and illuminate her first-person hatred for the rest of us...
I admire people who can pull off drabbles. I seem to have been born to be long-winded. :-P
Heh. Good skill to have. There's a very popular community in SSHG, grangersnape100 that's friendly and review rich if you ever want to try your hand. It's for true drabbles, which are 100 words exactly or multiples. As a purist, I'm rather annoyed sortinghatdrabs is calling what are more properly ficlets or flash fiction drabbles.
Getting awards was something I took for granted in Trek actually--and I wrote more first person there than not, mostly gen, often the more neglected figures. First person came naturally to me, third person didn't. And if you look at the 10 drabbles I was competing against, none of the others were first person, yet it was mine that won. Lots of bestselling novels--and celebrated classics are first person too--so no, obviously not usually a turn-off.
It's definitely the one that comes most easily to me, too. And even though QoM was third person, it was a tight third person that stuck with Hermione through the whole novel, so it came pretty close,
( ... )
I have to say that I really, normally, dislike present tense. I just feel too close to the character. I like third person because you can see into the expressions of others and their thoughts via the author. I just feel too close-minded with first person. I actually normally turn away if I come across it. It just puts a damper on the story for me. I've just always liked the feeling of third person better... and for some reason, the descriptions.
But, I recently discovered present tense... which I find fascinating ever since the Divide story.
I have to say that I really, normally, dislike present tense.
Do you mean first person? You said later you did love it in the Divide story (and I agree, I thought it was magical there). Have you ever read Soul Searching by Quillusion? It's a classic SSHG first person epic, and a top favorite of mine.
I don't have an aversion to reading first person, but I tend to stay away from it when I write. And I normally don't like to write in present tense either, but sometimes for shorter pieces I find myself dabbling in both first and present. But, you're right, it's demanding, and I don't always feel comfortable staying in one character's head. There's too much they can't know.
I don't always feel comfortable staying in one character's head. There's too much they can't know.
That can be a concern for longer stories granted. It's easier when it's short--and some of the odder POVs (say second person) tend to wear out their welcome in longer pieces.
I love playing with and nothing the different effects of POV though. Present tense often lends a lyricism. First person an intimacy and sense of time and place actually, since language is so telling. I read once stream of consciousness can be used as a special effect within other view points to show shock or a disintegrating mind. And a writer I respect told me she loves using second person to show psychological damage.
I also think SSHG tends to be too staid stylistically. One of things I've enjoyed about the Exchange is we've seen more experimental formats, genres, and voices.
I find present tense works best with the darker stuff where I have to take a more clinical tone with what's happening onscreen/on the page. It lends itself better to that mix of detachment of the narrator and immediacy to the viewer.
First person is okay to use when I purposefully require narrative misdirection and/or am using a heavy dose of dramatic irony - but apart from that I like the omniscient voice. I find it can still take on and shift between the individual perspectives of the different characters, and then revert back to being objective.
You grand opuses so far that I know of an suspect, Pomegranate Seeds, Wasting Away and a certain Exchange fic are all third person past tense though--and mostly alternating or rotating limited. Although another look at the first looks like it might have touches of omniscient. There's darker? *shudders* *thinks of "I, MacNair" Well, yeah...
It does makes sense that present tense might give that sense of detachment. Second person is usually present tense and lends that sense.
I find it can still take on and shift between the individual perspectives of the different characters, and then revert back to being objective.
Omniscient is a bitch to write well I think, and almost never is. What you get most times is sloppy third person limited. I know one editor who said not to even try it until you have about a million words behind you. Sometimes I've seen brilliant things with it though, like Bambu's Fullness of Time. But rarely seen it done well.
Ever read Bright Lights, Big City? It's a novel-length second person *g* And I do like it. And actually read a lot of second person in Trek I loved. A lot of first person too.
I agree though the problem is few really hit the voices, and that shows more in first person. I mean, I think we accept a "neutral" third person narrator who isn't necessarily the character. But in first person we do expect that to be Hermione. Or Snape. Or Pansy. Or McNair ;-)
Soul Searching really is one of my top fav SSHG though--top five, easily. And it is first person.
So naturally I can't get Renita to read it. *sadness*
No, and honestly, I don't think I'd want to. It doesn't sound the least bit appealing.
I read Soul Searching too long ago to remember my reaction, but I don't think it was negative. I do agree, it can be done well, even in fanfic, just that it happens very rarely.
I don't think I've ever written in first person. Or been tempted to. It's completely foreign for me. Maybe it depends on what one's grown up with... I'm sure there was a first-person POV book here and then that I read as a child, but none I can think of right now.
All the Sherlock Holmes books are first person you know. Dostoevsky's Notes from Underground; Mark Twain's The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn; Henry James The Turn of the Screw; Charlotte Bronte's Jane Eyre. Bram Stoker's Dracula; Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness. F. Scott Fitzgerald's The Great Gatsby; Helen Fielding's. Bridget Jones's Diary. Salinger's Catcher in the Rye; Dickens’s Great Expectations; R.L.Stevenson’s Treasure Island; Harper Lee's To Kill a Mockingbird
Popular books like James Patterson's Alex Delaware novels, Stephenie Meyer's Twilight series (although I think those are awful) LK Hamilton's Anita Blake series (which becomes awful) Karen Armstrong's Women of the Overworld series--most mysteries--there's a tradition of that. The Kushiel Books by Jacqueline Carey (fantasy).
I find it hard to believe that people aren't used to and conversant with first person in ordinary literature. Maybe it's just that when it's well done, you're not aware of it, so you don't realize how much you've read?
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I admire people who can pull off drabbles. I seem to have been born to be long-winded. :-P
I happen to love first person. Maybe it was growing up reading a bunch of Mary Stewart and Victoria Holt novels, all of which (as far as I can recall) were written in first person. So where the hate comes from, I'm not sure. Actually, a couple of my most popular fics (not in HP fandom...hmm, actually, my Snape/OFC was alternating 1st/3rd) were written in first person, so I know it's not an automatic turnoff for everyone.
It's definitely the one that comes most easily to me, too. And even though QoM was third person, it was a tight third person that stuck with Hermione through the whole novel, so it came pretty close, too.
Maybe Renita will drop by and illuminate her first-person hatred for the rest of us...
Reply
Heh. Good skill to have. There's a very popular community in SSHG, grangersnape100 that's friendly and review rich if you ever want to try your hand. It's for true drabbles, which are 100 words exactly or multiples. As a purist, I'm rather annoyed sortinghatdrabs is calling what are more properly ficlets or flash fiction drabbles.
Getting awards was something I took for granted in Trek actually--and I wrote more first person there than not, mostly gen, often the more neglected figures. First person came naturally to me, third person didn't. And if you look at the 10 drabbles I was competing against, none of the others were first person, yet it was mine that won. Lots of bestselling novels--and celebrated classics are first person too--so no, obviously not usually a turn-off.
It's definitely the one that comes most easily to me, too. And even though QoM was third person, it was a tight third person that stuck with Hermione through the whole novel, so it came pretty close, ( ... )
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But, I recently discovered present tense... which I find fascinating ever since the Divide story.
Hello, by the way. :D
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Do you mean first person? You said later you did love it in the Divide story (and I agree, I thought it was magical there). Have you ever read Soul Searching by Quillusion? It's a classic SSHG first person epic, and a top favorite of mine.
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That is one story that I do like in first person. Every so often...
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That can be a concern for longer stories granted. It's easier when it's short--and some of the odder POVs (say second person) tend to wear out their welcome in longer pieces.
I love playing with and nothing the different effects of POV though. Present tense often lends a lyricism. First person an intimacy and sense of time and place actually, since language is so telling. I read once stream of consciousness can be used as a special effect within other view points to show shock or a disintegrating mind. And a writer I respect told me she loves using second person to show psychological damage.
I also think SSHG tends to be too staid stylistically. One of things I've enjoyed about the Exchange is we've seen more experimental formats, genres, and voices.
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First person is okay to use when I purposefully require narrative misdirection and/or am using a heavy dose of dramatic irony - but apart from that I like the omniscient voice. I find it can still take on and shift between the individual perspectives of the different characters, and then revert back to being objective.
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It does makes sense that present tense might give that sense of detachment. Second person is usually present tense and lends that sense.
I find it can still take on and shift between the individual perspectives of the different characters, and then revert back to being objective.
Omniscient is a bitch to write well I think, and almost never is. What you get most times is sloppy third person limited. I know one editor who said not to even try it until you have about a million words behind you. Sometimes I've seen brilliant things with it though, like Bambu's Fullness of Time. But rarely seen it done well.
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So, no taunting words of wisdom to Renita about first person?
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Especially with the added intimacy of the first-person pronouns. ;)
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I agree though the problem is few really hit the voices, and that shows more in first person. I mean, I think we accept a "neutral" third person narrator who isn't necessarily the character. But in first person we do expect that to be Hermione. Or Snape. Or Pansy. Or McNair ;-)
Soul Searching really is one of my top fav SSHG though--top five, easily. And it is first person.
So naturally I can't get Renita to read it. *sadness*
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No, and honestly, I don't think I'd want to. It doesn't sound the least bit appealing.
I read Soul Searching too long ago to remember my reaction, but I don't think it was negative. I do agree, it can be done well, even in fanfic, just that it happens very rarely.
I don't think I've ever written in first person. Or been tempted to. It's completely foreign for me. Maybe it depends on what one's grown up with... I'm sure there was a first-person POV book here and then that I read as a child, but none I can think of right now.
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Popular books like James Patterson's Alex Delaware novels, Stephenie Meyer's Twilight series (although I think those are awful) LK Hamilton's Anita Blake series (which becomes awful) Karen Armstrong's Women of the Overworld series--most mysteries--there's a tradition of that. The Kushiel Books by Jacqueline Carey (fantasy).
I find it hard to believe that people aren't used to and conversant with first person in ordinary literature. Maybe it's just that when it's well done, you're not aware of it, so you don't realize how much you've read?
Reply
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