This would be one of the reasons my post (and it may be posts, but we'll see where my brain is this week and next) is focused on my values, not what I think anyone else's should be.
(Well, I believe informed choice is a good general value, and I'm devoting my professional life to it too, so that's probably a good thing. But I do get that people get to .. erm, choose not to do that, and some will.)
Inevitable SnarkutilitygeekJune 17 2009, 20:44:18 UTC
I'm always amused when someone wants to talk about community values as though they are universal. It makes me think of fast food -- the value menu is the same everywhere. Pagan values? I'd like a goatburger with cheese, a small magic mushroom, and a diet Coke. Because stereotypes are fun.
Re: Inevitable Snarkhalf_doubleJune 18 2009, 18:48:22 UTC
"Thank you, ma'am. $7.50, please pull ahead. Would you like to add a Christian baby parfait with virgin sacrifice sauce in a collectible cauldron cup for only $2 more?"
I'm a bad person that a little tiny part of me was all "ooooooooooh DRAMA!" A really small part, I swear! But yeah, I could see a lot of ways this could go bad. I've been thinking about looking for a community again for a few years now, but I tend to get scared off by this kind of thing.
TC Reclaiming has mostly gone kersplatt. I'm mostly just working with Leora these days. I have Pagan Pride and an occasional potluck for my bigger "community" needs. But if you're looking for a group, I might be able to hook you up with some folks.
That's too bad - Reclaiming (though specifically the northern CA witchcamp bunch, not the MN bunch) did a lot for me when I was moving from solitary to group work. I drifted away for a few reasons, but mostly I just didn't feel much connection with people. I was also tired of being 20-50 years younger than everyone else in the room and having so few men around. I'll have to think about your offer. I miss exercising that part of my life, but feel guilty about how little I do on my own.
I'm Christian, not Pagan, but with judicious word substitution you could just as easily have written this about the Christian "community". The biggest lesson I learned from my Lutheran upbringing was that God (and His Word, the Bible), not any human being, was the ultimate spiritual authority. My Lutheran pastor didn't take this well when I drew different conclusions than him about what the Bible says.
And in the wider scope of Christianity, there are a multitude of forms that worship and prayer and so forth can take, most of which I've seen are FINE in and of themselves, but can become terribly terribly wrong when a) someone tries to tell me that my way to worship or pray is wrong because it differs from their way, or b) someone worships or prays in a way that is ineffective for them or makes them uncomfortable, because they believe it's the only right way.
I admit to being judgmental about people within my own faith, too. Argh. Some things are the same everywhere.
That's kind of what I was thinking. All religions are made of people, and people (especially in groups) tend to have the same kinds of problems.
Then again, on the other side, I had a really hard time coming up with "Pagan values" that weren't also Christian values or Muslim values or Jewish values or, you know, just plain old value-values.
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(Well, I believe informed choice is a good general value, and I'm devoting my professional life to it too, so that's probably a good thing. But I do get that people get to .. erm, choose not to do that, and some will.)
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As a special today, order water and I'll upgrade you to wine for free....
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(I find myself drifting away from that part of the forum. Everyone's getting so...philosophical. I just wanna go dance with the trees!)
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TC Reclaiming has mostly gone kersplatt. I'm mostly just working with Leora these days. I have Pagan Pride and an occasional potluck for my bigger "community" needs. But if you're looking for a group, I might be able to hook you up with some folks.
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I'm Christian, not Pagan, but with judicious word substitution you could just as easily have written this about the Christian "community". The biggest lesson I learned from my Lutheran upbringing was that God (and His Word, the Bible), not any human being, was the ultimate spiritual authority. My Lutheran pastor didn't take this well when I drew different conclusions than him about what the Bible says.
And in the wider scope of Christianity, there are a multitude of forms that worship and prayer and so forth can take, most of which I've seen are FINE in and of themselves, but can become terribly terribly wrong when a) someone tries to tell me that my way to worship or pray is wrong because it differs from their way, or b) someone worships or prays in a way that is ineffective for them or makes them uncomfortable, because they believe it's the only right way.
I admit to being judgmental about people within my own faith, too. Argh. Some things are the same everywhere.
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Then again, on the other side, I had a really hard time coming up with "Pagan values" that weren't also Christian values or Muslim values or Jewish values or, you know, just plain old value-values.
Because, again...people.
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