When only bad guys have guns...

[gwendally]

The most depressing thing I've seen coming out of the tragedy in Connecticut is my friend Heather saying that an armed Good Guy would have made it MORE likely that more children would have been killed.  The belief that Guns Are Evil and Only The State Can Save Us is so strong and so closely held that the concept of individual agency using a tool

Comments

[tobor_1138]

Unfortunately, there's even more intellectual bankruptcy surrounding this tragedy, as we now learn that Lanza's mother (a New Hampshire native who was quite comfortable taking responsibility living off the grid part time) was a "prepper" who was paranoid about economic collapse and was storing food along with her guns. This clearly must have driven her son over the edge.

I guess I should start using anonymous proxies whenever I want to read Market Ticker or Zero Hedge.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2249185/Connecticut-school-shooting-Did-paranoid-gun-crazed-mother-trigger-Adam-Lanzas-school-killing-spree-Friends-say-believed-world-edge-collapse.html

[gwendally]

What I find bizarre is that her guns were accessible to her disturbed son. I have a perfectly wonderful son without the merest trace of mental illness and he does NOT have the combination to our gun safe. Was she sleeping with the glock under her pillow (perhaps afraid of her own son?) But that doesn't explain the Bushmaster

[wyllenn]

I cannot speak to Nancy Lanza's thought process, but I will say that while YOU seem to be a very responsible gun owner, that you have to realize that NOT ALL gunowners are as responsible. In fact, it seems from what we hear in the news that a number of gun owners are irresponsible

[gwendally]

You said "if we are going to let people have deadly weapons". Your mindset is that you get to decide whether to disarm people who have a perfectly valid and reasonable reasons for having weapons. It's as if you said, "if we are going to let people eat meat"... it's an incredibly intrusive statist way to address things that are fundamental to life and liberty for people. Not people just like you, people who are DIFFERENT than you. But soverign and resonsible for themselves and if they choose to eat meat - even if the world would be better off if everyone were vegetarian - then it isn't YOUR RIGHT or obligation to stop them

[wyllenn]

Hi Dally's LJ! I'm the Heather in question. *waves

[gwendally]

I agree that it would be problematic to take out an active shooter. You stand a very real chance of being shot, and I really don't know if a person who was carrying a weapon would attempt it

[wyllenn]

When you explain it like that, it's much more sensible. But it seemed when we were talking about the Colorado shooting earlier this year that right away someone talked about "taking out" the active shooter because he would have been such an easy target. That's what started my rant about powerful situations.

I'm not denying that weapons can never help.

But I don't think we can ever say they always help.

And figuring out the statistics (rather than a bunch of anecdotes that both sides can dredge up) is very difficult.

All I know is that when there are a lot of guns, a lot of people die of gun shot wounds. Listen to the Chicago news every week. It happens all the time.

So while it may be the case that having concealed weapons helps in some situations, I just don't know I can believe that they make us all safer all the time.

[gwendally]

I don't think concealed weapons always make us safer. I think a lot of the time they never ever get used - most people who carry a concealed weapon do NOT want you to know they have it. People act funny if they know you're armed. It's nonsensical; people walk in front of my car in parking lots all the time without ever once having it occur to them that I'm going to gas the engine and mow them down. But if they know you have a gun suddenly they think you're a threat to them. I carry a pocket knife in my purse and I have a 100% success rate at never ever stabbing anyone with it. (It comes in handy opening packing tape on boxes, though

[commander_zero]

:::shrug:::
I live in a state where the average resident, according to one source, owns an average of 26 guns. Folks here keep guns in their vehicles, can carry a pistol around openly on their belt, and any home without a firearm is an oddity.

Everyone here feels quite safe.

[gwendally]

And I live in a state where the population put up a request to change the laws to allow people the right to commit suicide. Pretty please, State, won't you PLEASE let me kill myself?

Because, you know, it wouldn't be right to do that yourself without the state's license to do so.

[wyllenn]

So are we saying that the only way to feel safe is for everyone to have a gun?

[gwendally]

When everyone has a gun you have a sort of herd immunity to crazed spree killers.

When you have a "gun-free zone" like that elementary school, or that theater, or a college campus, it just means that the crazed spree killer can feel safe walking around shooting people, content in the knowledge that no one will be able to take them out.

The prestigious women's college that B. works at does not allow campus security to carry weapons. A spree killer would feel much safer going there than, say, downtown Missoula.

Also, there actually *IS* no way to feel safe. You are NOT safe. Crazy people exist, for one thing, and there could be an earthquake or a bolt of lightning or an aneurysm at any moment. Sorry.

[labrat2]

Great discussion here.

I'm not so good at making all these points well.

I live in Montana but used to live in Calif. where you needed to have a "Firearms Safety Certificate" to purchase a handgun. That meant you theoretically knew the safety rules, etc. To get a license to carry concealed, in the states I know of (don't know about CA), you need proof of further training and a willingness to accept that responsibility.

I'm sure most people that do such horrible things aren't really concerned about any rules or laws about owning firearms. And if there were no firearms available, they would find some other way of committing some horrific act.

[girl_on_a_stick]

Amen. I think a lot of the American public seemed to miss that on the same day of the CT shoot ing a wacko in China cut 20+ people with a knife.

[wyllenn]

But none of them died.

[gwendally]

I am utterly against a mentally-disturbed 20 year old having access to a Bushmaster .223 rifle with a high-capacity clip in a non-combat situation. We should definitely punish that rifle-owner for letting him get his hands on it.

Oh, wait...

[crazyburro]

and there are differences in attack distance, as well.