2012

[gwendally]

Did anyone see "2012"? The opening scenes show tea-party-like protests against the national debt in the background. A minute later there's a scene where a rich person is offered something they want and told it costs "a billion". They seem relieved until told it's a billion EUROs, not dollars. Ouch, a billion in REAL money

Comments

[commander_zero]

Starting to sound like my usual demographic.

[gwendally]

;-)

I've never been one that believes much in conspiracies. I think people are too stupid and too lazy to manage big projects quietly, for one thing.

But I don't need a conspiracy for this to make sense. It could be that they've run economic projections and land the same place I do and figured, well, we're so seriously screwed that it makes no difference whatsoever, so why NOT run huge deficits? Free unicorns for everybody!!!!

Doesn't it all sort of click into place when you look at it that way?

The projections I'm seeing are Peak Oil and currency failure, by the way, not climate change. But, hey, throw in the poisoning of the oceans and destruction of the atmosphere if you like, why not.

[admnaismith]

I just want my unicorn, then.

And I want it right away, before the Chinese come to claim it.

[gwendally]

Yes, that's the thing with unicorns. They hand them out and it's all quite lovely, but then you find that the gifts weren't sustainable and go poof. And then you look up and realize the unicorn is gone, too, because unicorns don't stay after you've been screwed.

[flemco]

Enlighten me: why is a $1.9 Trillion raise "unconscionable"? We've been operating in the red for most of my life now, and the debt was currrently set at $12.1 trillion.

[gwendally]

I linked to an article about the debt ceiling.

Do you know what 1.9 trillion dollars means? I've run projections on the present value of our future debt obligations and they already comprise all our future income streams ever. In fact, they comprise MORE than our future income streams. There is no mathematical way to pay back our current debt obligations.

The solutions are devaluing the dollar via inflation or bankruptcy. Those are them. I thought devaluing the dollar via inflation was the official policy, but now I'm wondering if a de facto bankruptcy is the official plan: if they see regime-changing catastrophic global events happening that could serve as a de facto declaration of bankruptcy. Presto-chango, no more debts. Of course, no more country, either, but if that's your intended plan then it makes sense to borrow more than you can ever possibly pay back.

Make more sense now?

Can you see why something in the above paragraphs might be considered "unconscionable?"

[flemco]

Do you know what 1.9 trillion dollars means?

Assume that I do. Thanks.

There is no mathematical way to pay back our current debt obligations.Unless certain factors in the formula are erased. This has happened again and again throughout the financial history of America

[gwendally]

America has operated in staggering debt for almost two centuries. Why haven't our creditors shut us down yet? Because we kick fucking ass globally. We're the cash cow. And until that fact no longer holds sway, I'd posit that we could raise the national debt ceiling to 300% of the GDP and still come out fine a few decades later.

Are we STILL the cash cow? When was the last time we PAID for that which we wanted instead of giving an IOU?

Also, are you SURE that we've operated in staggering debt for those two centuries? Because my understanding is that our current monetary system is only about 38 years old.