Mystery and fantasy

[gryphonrhi]

I was considering ltlj's ebay auction (and reminding myself that my Lindsey Davis books are temporarily packed and I'm not buying, really!) and I started thinking about a type in detective fiction: the proud and/or stubborn near-loser, frequently a depressed alcoholic. What is it with this type in detective literature? Holmes had his weakness for

Comments

[sinanju]

The sudden appearance of a bastard child has a long history in fiction--but women are far less likely to be surprised by the appearance of a previously-unknown child than men, for obvious reasons. So I'm not surprised that the majority of the bastard children belong to the men. (Also, for all of Oberon's apparently energetic pursuit of sex, he didn't have all that many children given how long he's been screwing around. Children seem fairly rare amongst the Amber crowd.)

As for the women not scheming to take the throne...I dunno. Benedict was well known to be uninterested in the throne (else he'd have had it long ago), so it isn't only the women who aren't fighting over it.

[gryphonrhi]

Well, yeah, the women wouldn't be surprised, but said children just never show up. And according to the second set of books (and a Pattern ghost that should have some idea) Oberon had 25 legitimate children and at least 47 illegitimate children that he knew of at the last point he walked the Pattern. I wouldn't say they're rare.

Corwin, Random, Brand, Benedict (supposedly), and certainly Oberon all have children show up. The women? Nope.

And yeah, Benedict didn't want the throne, nor Gerard. Hmm. It just seems off-balance to me somehow.

Dsm IV take two....

[shrewreader]

Commented on the tendency for me to list diagnosis next to characterization on thehoyden's LJ. Bears further exploration here

Re: Dsm IV take two....

[gryphonrhi]

Er, I certainly wasn't trying to say it was a failure on the part of the authors in question, Shrew. Particularly given that I own all of Sayers' detective books, and a majority of Marsh's and Davis's. I'm just curious about the typing.

(And for my curiousity, what subjects did you lose in the first para of that?)

And nah, I've quit kicking myself so hard on Paving Stones. Not once I realized I'd written 65,000 words on it in the last 12 months, while moving, settling in, and writing at least 12 short and not so short, stories in addition.

I didn't realize you were writing the locked room thing for NaNoWriMo; condolences on it sticking!! That sucks!

Re: Dsm IV take two....

[shrewreader]

ooops, bad word choice....

wasn't meaning failure in the sense of failure per se. Tendency away from diversification?

Re: Dsm IV take two....

[gryphonrhi]

::nodding:: Yeah, that's what I meant. ;-> It feels like there are very definite types of detective characters. I mean, Miss Marple and Jessica Fletcher, e.g.. And come to think of it, I can't think of another female detective I could confuse with Kate Martinelli. Hmm. I may have to rethink this.

[vaznetti]

I don't remember much about the Amber books (I liked them, but not enough to reread) but I do remember being irritated by the gender imbalance--but I also put it down to the author. The series was started rather a long time ago, and gender stereotypes were different then.

You know, the thing I like best about Falco is the extent to which he doesn't fit the usual PI stereotype (which I think of as the loner maverick). He tries for it, but it's so obviously just a pose for him--and of course, the fact that he can't walk more than fifty feet without being accosted by a relative only makes it worse. He can't be a loner, no matter how much he'd like to be.

[gryphonrhi]

::giggling:: Oh, don't get me wrong. I like Falco. Mostly, I'm thinking of him turning down the chance to move up a social class from sheer pride, and how much grief that's caused him. But you're right; having his family show up everywhere is just hilarious.

Yeah, I'm wondering if the imbalance isn't mostly due to their age, now that you mention it. Pity, though.

Loner/maverick

[gryphonrhi]

Hmm. Any idea on what it is about this stereotype showing up so much in detective fiction, though?

Re: Loner/maverick

[kanjin]

Just a guess, mind you - but most of the hard-boiled detective fiction I've read dealt with the really bad subjects, plumbing the depths to which human behavior can sink. Now someone who deals with that day after day, year after year, they'd be affected by it. And they find ways to cope. Holmes' cocaine addiction - escape from reality. Wimsey's lack of seriousness - if it can't touch him, it can't hurt him. Falco, well, all the world around him is rotten and corrupt but he is not going to be. He wouldn't call it pride (thought Helena would!) but integrity. And in my more cynical hours I believe him.

Make any sense?

[gryphonrhi]

Really? I just can't read Dunnett, despite vaznetti's recommendations of her.

Dorothy L. Sayers' books question

[mrlnpndrgn]

Forgive me for barging in in your LJ. But I'm curious. I've never read Dorothy L. Sayers...
Which of her books would you recommand as an intro?
I never read the hard-boiled detective novels, but I'm interested in trying new authors, and her detective sounds intriguing.
Thanks,
CG

Re: Dorothy L. Sayers' books question

[gryphonrhi]

Oh, Lord Peter is *great* fun. I highly recommend the books! And, hmm. Let me see. If it were me, and at one point it was, I'd recommend starting with one of these three: Murder Must Advertise, Nine Tailors, or Strong Poison. They're all good first novels for the series, and highly enjoyable. After that, pick up the others as you can, or in order if you can, but Whose Body?, while the first written, is not the best introduction to them.

Hope youe enjoy!

Re: Dorothy L. Sayers' books question

[mrlnpndrgn]

Thansk. I'll try to hunt them down. I might have to go to Amazon since I've never seen her books here :(
I've been craving new authors (they keep croaking on me! )

Re: Dorothy L. Sayers' books question

[gryphonrhi]

::rueful:: Well, this one has been gone almost fifty years, I'm afraid, but that's still 10 long books ahead of you (counting the anthology of her collected short stories) and superb ones at that. Good luck finding them; they're certainly in print *here*!