First post

[michloup]

And it isn't to say anything positive. I was really unhappy with episode 2.03, Grilled Cheesus, when I watched (today), and well...Anyway. I think this needed to be said.

Comments

[we_got_caught]

Just FYI, the episode name is "Grilled Cheesus" not "Faith".

[michloup]

Thanks. I'm changing it right now. That's just the name my subtitle file has.

[sometimescrazy]

I don't mind the discussion, but can you copy/paste everything to this entry under the cut. We really like to keep the discussion on this comm, not promote other personal journals. Thanks.

[michloup]

Sorry. Done.

[justapalindrome]

So I'm an agnostic, probably leaning towards atheism at this juncture in my life, and I didn't really get all that from this episode. One quick tangent though: I don't think it's at all "wrong" or offensive to invite someone of another faith to a service that is contrary. I was raised Jewish and Catholic and a baptist friend of mine wanted to see what a Catholic Mass was like and a Jewish synagogue service, and I don't think it was a particularly evil of me to accept her request haha. Now If i brought her with expectation of conversion that would be different, but, much like Mercedes, I don't think that was the goal. I know some atheists who participate in religious service during holidays, not because of an modicum of belief, but because they are culturally relevant and they enjoy that sense of tradition

[crittab]

This is exactly what I got out of the episode, and I'm coming from a Christian perspective.

[michloup]

Well there's a different between inviting someone whose expressed an interest and inviting someone who is very clear about the fact that he isn't interested. And as an atheist, I've been invited to religious services. And never there hasn't been th hope- I wouldn't say the intention, but the hope- that somehow it would change my mind. Maybe it isn't impossible, but forgive me from not seeing like that

[jlarinda]

Agreed. It really bothered me that, for example, Kurt apologizes to Mercedes but she doesn't apologize to him for acting condescendingly to him and acting like he's missing out!!11 for being atheist. Or that Emma's FURIOUS about Sue trying to keep the kids from expressing their religious beliefs, but isn't furious about the other kids forcing theirs on Kurt. Nobody seems to be.

I keep wondering how people would've reacted if it'd been the others questioning Quinn like that, for example.

[harmonious]

Yep, I agree with you here. I wouldn't say I was angry, but I was definitely raising an eyebrow throughout the entire episode, hoping that they'd finish it with, "And btw, you guys were kind of assholes for treating Kurt like this, especially with what he's going through." But nope, the message was quite the opposite. Not cool, Glee. Not cool.

[jlarinda]

Ugh, exactly :/ This kind of thing would've bothered me at ANY time, but... what the fuck, how was that the time to be pestering him and questioning his beliefs? Didn't he have enough shit to handle, to have to be dealing with his friends calling him close-minded and acting outraged that he doesn't believe in God?

[harmonious]

100% agreed. Uncool at any time, incredibly uncool considering Kurt's situation.

Don't get me wrong. It's not like I'm thinking, "Well, obviously the Glee kids were purposely being disrespectful." It's pretty obvious that they were, for the most part, acting in a way that they thought would be helpful. For example, if Finn and his mom wanted to pray for his dad, Kurt probably should have let them. Maybe Rachel should be added into that allowance list, as Finn's girlfriend. The other Glee kids, though? They have little to no connection with Kurt's dad and therefore should have been respecting his limits more

[crittab]

I'm just going to point out that for all of the preaching the religious kids did, Kurt did a lot of bashing too. I never felt like Kurt was made out to be 'in the wrong' because he didn't believe, moreso that tolerance and acceptance is necessary everywhere, regardless of which side of the line you walk?

They were all dismissive of eachothers belief systems, and I think that was the point--to stir up some sort of irritation on both sides, and then maybe make people actually stop and think, if it's not okay for the religious kids to push that on athiests, than why is it okay when the situation is reversed?

This episode, for me, isn't one to get mad about, it's moreso one to think about. I was irritated by the portrayal of certain Christian characters, and I think that was the point. I am Christian, and I felt misrepresented, but they aren't trying to represent 'me', they're representing a stereotype, and trying to break it down. I can understand and respect that.

[insanitygenius]

This, so much. Pretty much the first thing out of Kurt's mouth after he said he didn't believe in God was every stereotypical/offensive joke wrapped into one. Yes, the others expressed disbelief when he said that, but honestly? I would be surprised if someone said they didn't believe in God. Atheism isn't a very popular standpoint, especially in the Midwest, I'd imagine

[crittab]

Yea, I think you're right on all of those points. It may have been insensitive for them to do the whole prayer circle around Burt, but at the same time, Finn and Carole are hurting too, and have every right to do what they need to do to feel better, even if that's not what Kurt would do.

[insanitygenius]

That's what my first thought was- Carole probably really wanted them there. Yeah, Kurt is the son and she's only "the girlfriend," but he wasn't there. And they probably didn't expect him to show up. So while it was still overstepping their boundaries, it obviously wasn't supposed to be done as a rebellion to Kurt's beliefs, or something.

I think it's like two double standards wrapped up in one: people are allowed to push religious beliefs while atheists aren't allowed to speak out against it, but it's also fine for people to mock religion while people can't mock atheism/non-religious belief/etc. Two contradictory double standards, but I feel as though both exist to a point.