Puzzling over Plotholes

[gehayi]

I've just found a plothole in OotP. Yes, another one.

It's in Chapter 28, "Snape's Worst Memory."

The Marauders and Snape have just taken their DADA O.W.L. As MWPP leave the classroom and emerge into the entrance hall (with Snape right behind them, apparently absorbed in his examination questions), we get this conversation:

"Did you like

Comments

[lidane]

This is why I'm starting to be convinced that Snape's Worst Memory isn't real.

I mean, of all the memories that Severus has in his Pensive, why that particular one? And how do we know it's even real, and that it wasn't planted by Snape because he knew that Harry's curiosity would lead him to look in the Pensive? It's like Dumbledore's memories in his Pensive, or Tom Riddle's memories in his diary. How do we know that he wasn't just showing Harry what he wanted him to see, and he blurred the facts to his own ends?

If Severus was a Death Eater for a time, and had truly reformed, wouldn't he have as a worst memory some sort of DE attack, or something centered on the Dark Lord? The memory that's shown seems almost petty by comparison, IMO.

Sirius and Remus never denied that the incident took place, but I don't remember if they confirmed all of the actual circumstances behind it. Did they admit it was during OWL's?

[xdistantsparkle]

I don't know if you could really consider it his "worst" memory... Just because JKR titled it so, doesn't mean that it really was. It just happened to be the one Harry fell into.

Though - I do think that Snape left it there for a purpose. I think he wanted Harry to see the jerk-off side of his father. And in that case - it did it's job well.

But I don't know how you could put a memory into a pensieve if the memory didn't exist?

[gehayi]

If Severus was a Death Eater for a time, and had truly reformed, wouldn't he have as a worst memory some sort of DE attack, or something centered on the Dark Lord? The memory that's shown seems almost petty by comparison, IMO.

I agree. Being humiliated by schoolfellows is bad, but it doesn't make sense as "Snape's worst memory"--and if it isn't intended to be his "worst memory," then why the devil did JKR call the chapter that? She could have just called "A Bad Memory of Snape's," and let it go at that.

Sirius and Remus never denied that the incident took place, but I don't remember if they confirmed all of the actual circumstances behind it. Did they admit it was during OWL's?

No, they didn't mention O.W.L.s. However, Lupin does say that it happened when James was fifteen, and Sirius says that a lot of people are idiots at fifteen, and that James grew out of it.

[rubytuesday1313]

I never thought that he was actually listening to what the four of them said. He might have heard it faintly, and remembered it subconsciously. Hence, he wouldn't have actually known in sixth year, since he wouldn't remember the conversation. But from what I can gather about Pensieves, they show every part of a memory, even things we're not consciously aware of remembering. So that conversation would be accessible in the Pensive, but to Snape when he was in Sixth Year. So he wouldn't have known Remus was a werewolf, and therefore the Prank can plausibly happen.

[rubytuesday1313]

but not to Snape when he was in Sixth year.

[atalantapendrag]

That's the only explanation that makes any sense to me; I was thinking the same thing.

[runespoor7]

Hear, hear.

[ariastar]

I think that would become a question of whether or not a Pensieve memory is from the point of view of the person who put that memory in, or if it just an objective recording of events. Going on the assumption that it's the latter-- after all, I believe at one point during the scene Harry follows MWPP and Snape is noted to be sitting rather far away, far enough that it can be assumed he perhaps didn't hear them-- it's possible that Snape didn't hear the bit of MWPP's conversation concerning Remus's condition. If this is the case, then those two events can both exist.

Granted, it does take a bit of manuvering to reach that conclusion. JKR could've been a bit more careful or precise about it.

[gehayi]

The problem is that the conversation takes place at a point when we're told that Snape is walking close behind MWPP. Definitely within earshot, I'd say.

[xdistantsparkle]

Actually, I've always assumed that Snape knew Remus was a werewolf before the prank. I just don't think Sirius realized that.

I've always figured that Snape more or less pranked Sirius, just as he thought he was pranking him. I think he fully expected to see the werewolf in the shack - he just wanted to know how to get to it; to have proof.

I think he wanted to get Remus kicked out of the school. And Sirius as well - you know, for telling him.

Anyone who paid any attention to the four Marauders would have had to have put two and two together. Especially after learning about werewolves in class. Granted, I'm sure most people wouldn't say anything... but there had to have been others that were as intelligent as WPP in putting it all together and figuring out *why* Remus was gone once a month.

On the full moons.

But, that's just my opinion. Granted, I kind of figured that everyone thought that. hahaha. Guess I was wrong.

[gehayi]

It wouldn't be hard to figure out, that's for sure. All anyone would have to do is compare Lupin's absences to the charts they keep drawing in Astronomy class. It wouldn't take long for anyone to realise that Lupin was always absent on the full moon.

[fernwithy]

I didn't get the impression that Snape heard the whole conversation--he was quite a distance away. I think the Pensieve would allow a person to kind of see and hear things that were going on far on the edges of their consciousness that they never registered at the time.

[fernwithy]

In other words, he didn't know at the time. And I doubt that the werewolf incident would have been his worst memory--Snape's all about ego, and what hurt him about it was that Dumbledore failed to take his word that Sirius was trying to kill him... a lesser offense than being turned upside down and humiliated in front of all of his classmates.

[gehayi]

That still raises questions in my mind. Yes, humiliation would be bad, but surely whatever it was that made Snape turn on the Death Eaters and become a double agent had to be considerably more repugnant or sickening than schoolboy bullying.

[xdistantsparkle]

Does it ever actually say that it *was* his worst memory though? I mean, I thought it was just the chapter title... and while chapter titles have a bit of signifigance - I somehow doubt that it means that the scene had to be Snape's absolute worst memory.

I just want to make sure that I'm not missing something... because it seems like everyone questions the whole "is it really his worst memory" thing, but I just guessed it was a good chapter title - not to be taken literally.