Good luck, ESAo_rangekrushMarch 16 2006, 16:19:21 UTC
If ESA gets is legal fees - I will fly down to florida and personally give Jack Thompson a big hug (if I can find him)
Sorry to say this but I would not go along with this initiative by ESA. My thoughts are on the bigger picture in that private business should not have the ability to hand tie a government by seeking an enormous amount of compensation when bills fail.
Sure, in this particular case, it would be just desserts. But consider the broader aspects. What if a State were to try to impose greater safety devices in cars or tougher emissions controls and those bills eventually failed? Do you think it would be 'right' for GM and Ford to seek compensation for their legal/lobby bills?
I understand the argument that this case was an attempt at circumventing the First Amendment. But in my experience, once you open the door an inch, everyone will try to kick it right off the hinges.
Re: Good luck, ESAthaylinMarch 16 2006, 16:41:33 UTC
Yes I do. If a state attacks all automakers with something that they KNOW is unconstitutional then they should have to pay when it is found unconstitutional. Otherwise we have the complete oposite effect, which in my believe is even more hanus, where the state hand ties the public from being able to defend themselves from unconstitutional bills because the public will have to pay twice. Once for the goverment to create the bad bill, then a second time to have it stuck down in court. If it was something that targetted something primarily poor folks used how would they pay to have it struck down.
Re: Good luck, ESAthefremenMarch 16 2006, 18:01:13 UTC
The ESA had to spend a shitload of money to protect your rights as an American citizen, they have every right to recover the money. Same goes for defendants who are sued by their grandmother for eating too many of her pop-tarts, and if GM faught an unconstitutional law in court, they could as well.
Thing is, they'll never do that to automakers, but if they think they can get away with it to become a "family values" candidate, they'll keep passing these laws they know are unconstitutional.
Just keep remembering Bush's famous quote after the leak about his unwarranted spying: "Yeah, I approved listening in on American's phone calls without a warrant even though it's hella easy to get one. What you gonna do about it, BITCH?"
Re: Good luck, ESAthe_doctorMarch 16 2006, 18:31:29 UTC
Actually, from what I read of ESA's statement, they were going to get the money anyway, but the state wanted to attach conditions (I'm guessing they didn't want the amount made public). So now they'll probably still get the money, just in a very public fashion.
I hope they are sucessfulduncan_922March 16 2006, 16:23:53 UTC
Even though I don't think they will be sucessful, I certainly hope so. This would certainly halt this constant diarrhea of mee-too legislations and videogame violence bills that are draining the tax payers money just so the idiots proposing them can get a little spotlight.
I certainly hope they get their money back, especially if it hurts the taxpayers even more. Nothing says: "We won because you ALL were idiots" then getting money from all the people of a nation. Germany experienced it in World War 1, and boy were they happy after that...
If anyone should pay for this, it's the political parties that supported those bills and their own lawyer firms. The taxpayer will become enraged at the ESA if they start taking their funds out of their pocket.
I think the plan is less to get their money back, and more to publicly humilliate the Governor. Tell the public how much money he wasted fighting for a relatively (compared to things like crime) unimportant issue, and it won't matter if they actually got the money or not. The trick is to keep reminding people how much money the governor spent on something like this, and then compare it to, say, spending on salaries for police officers, and people will realise just how much money the governor wasted in order to try to buy their votes.
When it comes down to the crunch, taxpayers HATE being reminded about how much of their hard-earned money was wasted. Look at the last election up here. The Conservatives kept reminding people in Quebec how much money the Liberals spent on do-nothing legislation, basically attempts to buy their vote, and it right royally pissed off Quebecers, who felt insulted. The rest of Canada also got mad, because of all that money that was spent for nothing.
True enough, but people get even more mad when their tax money go into the pockets of organisations they do not approve of (like the ESA at this time of political upheaval against Video Games).
It's a vicious circle at this point... If the ESA doesn't want their money back and just want to point out how much was spent, it's going to bring an end to video game legislation. If they want their money back (and I'm sure they do) and fight for it, people will see their earnings fall in the hands of the ESA, not something they want.
Whatever the case is, Blagojevitch is going to be held responsible ANYWAYS. That's a nice compensation.
It's definately a vicious circle, but it helps to expose hopelessly incompetent seats in the local governments.
On one hand, they (the officials) didn't like or believe in the bill; on the other hand, they voted it in because if they didn't there would be stronger repurcussions for their potential re-election. They knew it was going to fail. They voted it on because they deemed it the right thing to do for themselves rather than their constituents.
The public isn't going to understand that until they see the big green dollar signs floating around the media. They'll happily assume that their reps are doing things for the people rather than for the reps' own careers. This was a $645k publicity stunt.
Hah! If the State is gunna do stupid stuff, then you know what, its completely legal for those injured by it to seak damages and legal fees. Oh this is so cool it hurts. I hope they win this too. Hopefully this will keep stupid, frivolous laws from being passed without due consideration. At the very least, you might not get Govenors saying "Well, we won't know if its unconstitutional till we make it a law". Yes you can tell, and I hope when they get taken to court for damage, it'll make the public realize what morons they've elected.
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Sorry to say this but I would not go along with this initiative by ESA. My thoughts are on the bigger picture in that private business should not have the ability to hand tie a government by seeking an enormous amount of compensation when bills fail.
Sure, in this particular case, it would be just desserts. But consider the broader aspects. What if a State were to try to impose greater safety devices in cars or tougher emissions controls and those bills eventually failed? Do you think it would be 'right' for GM and Ford to seek compensation for their legal/lobby bills?
I understand the argument that this case was an attempt at circumventing the First Amendment. But in my experience, once you open the door an inch, everyone will try to kick it right off the hinges.
Reply
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Thing is, they'll never do that to automakers, but if they think they can get away with it to become a "family values" candidate, they'll keep passing these laws they know are unconstitutional.
Just keep remembering Bush's famous quote after the leak about his unwarranted spying: "Yeah, I approved listening in on American's phone calls without a warrant even though it's hella easy to get one. What you gonna do about it, BITCH?"
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If anyone should pay for this, it's the political parties that supported those bills and their own lawyer firms. The taxpayer will become enraged at the ESA if they start taking their funds out of their pocket.
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When it comes down to the crunch, taxpayers HATE being reminded about how much of their hard-earned money was wasted. Look at the last election up here. The Conservatives kept reminding people in Quebec how much money the Liberals spent on do-nothing legislation, basically attempts to buy their vote, and it right royally pissed off Quebecers, who felt insulted. The rest of Canada also got mad, because of all that money that was spent for nothing.
Reply
It's a vicious circle at this point... If the ESA doesn't want their money back and just want to point out how much was spent, it's going to bring an end to video game legislation. If they want their money back (and I'm sure they do) and fight for it, people will see their earnings fall in the hands of the ESA, not something they want.
Whatever the case is, Blagojevitch is going to be held responsible ANYWAYS. That's a nice compensation.
Reply
On one hand, they (the officials) didn't like or believe in the bill; on the other hand, they voted it in because if they didn't there would be stronger repurcussions for their potential re-election. They knew it was going to fail. They voted it on because they deemed it the right thing to do for themselves rather than their constituents.
The public isn't going to understand that until they see the big green dollar signs floating around the media. They'll happily assume that their reps are doing things for the people rather than for the reps' own careers. This was a $645k publicity stunt.
Reply
Reply
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