Prop 8 Bossip

[gabecentric]

Comments

[encyclops]

The situation and the comments being made are definitely uncomfortable. I don't think we have to compare the two histories of discrimination, and I don't think we have to decide that it was so much worse for one group to vote Yes on 8 than it was for another.

Your point about outreach is key, because think about how it must feel to be black and know that 70% of your community voted down your right to marry. It's probably something you already knew and have been dealing with all your life, but still.

I blame the churches more. I think they're the ones who are really behind this problem in all communities.

[encyclops]

On the other hand, I have a big problem with the idea that two forms of discrimination must be equal in kind or degree to be comparable. That's just a way of dismissing the question. "We had it much worse so we don't even have to think about the discrimination others face" is bullshit. "Black and Latino people have a special responsibility to vote No because they are minorities" is also bullshit. Let's cut through both of those and just consider the issue head-on.

[gabecentric]

i dunno so are minorities more homophobic than their white coutnerparts? if so, then why? could it be because a lot of education on homophobia is geared towards middle and upper class whites and there are not enough materials or discussions that are culturally appropriate to different ethnicity groups?

aside from religion which is a big monster unto itself most people are homophobic because they've never been educated or interacted with gay people.

[encyclops]

so are minorities more homophobic than their white coutnerparts

I'm so totally not qualified to comment on that question! I think the answer is no, especially considering that each ethnic minority is different.

Some people cite as factors influencing homophobia the role of religion, cultural constructions of masculinity, and probably class issues as you point out. I don't think it's a universal truth, though. I suspect religious fundamentalist whites are probably more homophobic in general regardless of economic stratum, and even if they weren't the largest percentage of Yes on 8 voters (and I suspect they were), they almost certainly were the largest percentage of Yes on 8 SUPPORTERS in terms of donations and campaigning.

Even if it were shown (and I don't think it can be) that black and Latino voters were THE reason Prop 8 passed...as you point out, it's just a sign of how far we have to go still in terms of education and outreach.

[karusf]

As infuriating as the loss is, it's still true that we continue to move forward. I'd certainly prefer for everyone to have equal rights. Still, I remember our pre-Stonewall status and can't help but be delighted in how far we have come in a relatively short time. When I first came out 35 years ago, just BEING gay was generally considered to be a shameful thing. To even suggest that we would ever be granted equal rights under the law was utterly radical. Today we can see that with every passing year, more of the objections to treating us fairly fall away. Gay people don't have to hide in the shadows anymore. Nearly everyone knows that we exist, that we're not monsters, and that we have a place in the world. It's common knowledge now that we won't go away, that we have families and that we pose no real threat to the fabric of society. A generation from now, this fight will have been won. That doesn't make it any less challenging today, but as it was in another fight, we have seen the mountain top, and we do know we will get

also consider that people were misled

[sonicgloo]

I think in all fairness to those who voted for this, it is important to understand that the intensity of the FUD campaign that was conducted -- and as I understand -- largely targeting these groups

Re: also consider that people were misled

[gabecentric]

i know, i'm not sure if i'm exactly mad at the yes on 8 people because a lot of people just didn't have a clear understanding of gay people and how it would affect them. did you hear about this FUD thing from Sean in his former corporate days =^P

Re: also consider that people were misled

[encyclops]

I think a lot of people don't understand the differences between marriage and domestic partnership. Even I couldn't rattle them off -- I just know they exist. For a lot of people it's an abstract concept. I wish the No on 8 campaign had focused more on the concrete rights being denied gay couples and less on the true but abstract notion that it's just "wrong."

Re: also consider that people were misled

[sonicgloo]

Oh I am mad at the Yes On 8 people for misleading others who didn't have a clear understanding of gay culture and also (more importantly) misleading them on the simple facts of what was being asked for vs. the misinformation that was apparently delivered to the public through their advertising and other communications tactics. So I am not necessarily mad at those who have been misinformed and don't understand what they actually voted on (per Nancy Pelosi's comments I read the other day). And, no, i learned about FUD from being in the communications world and hearing about it going on... and as I think you can tell, not being entirely happy about it... Sean and I met "in his former corporate days," by the way.... we worked together at one point. :-)