That's an interesting read of the tiger line -- I read it as being effective with Raven because it's saying that he finds her attractive for reasons that go deeper than sex. Like, Raven is, as you say, trying to sleep with him to affirm her own attractiveness, and Erik is telling her that she is not-human and dangerous and has incredible capacity to cause damage, and that is not only completely OK with him, but that is what he finds attractive. Once she really comes into that not-human dangerousness and capacity to cause damage, he'll be really attracted to her and will want to sleep with her.
Erik is telling her that she is not-human...not only completely OK with him, but that is what he finds attractive.
While this is an extremely separatist perspective that possibly incepted her the idea that she's suppose to be held to a different standards because human standards don't apply, I still find it troubling that he's answering her by comparing her to an animal and still answering her question on a cosmetic level. This comparison is especially poignant given Hank's development into Beast. While there's the biological reality of being a mutant, Erik is still letting/using that to define everything else about her as well, which I find extremely dodgy for reasons described.
yay, thinky thoughts on fc! quigonejinnJuly 26 2011, 03:09:34 UTC
I still find it troubling that he's answering her by comparing her to an animal and still answering her question on a cosmetic level
It's deeper than a cosmetic level, though. While yes, it relates to her appearance, the word implies emotional and psychological elements. He doesn't say that she is "attractive like some attractive thing" or "pretty" or "gorgeous" the way that Charles does, when he compliments her. It does have to do with appearance, but the thing is, Raven doesn't look like a tiger. She has no physical tiger characteristics except maybe the eyes, and yet, Erik picks a word that is just loaded with meaning and implication and allusion in English-- I mean, the word is just soaked with the stuff. Blake, for example, and the danger of catching tigers, not to mention that the adage about stripe-changing, which is so on-the-head for Raven that I refuse to believe that Erik just sort of ran through his list of nouns and picked one, any one that was attractive for Raven
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Re: yay, thinky thoughts on fc! furiusJuly 26 2011, 16:30:25 UTC
While I'm certain that Erik thinks it's a compliment, the fact that he thinks so (let's assume he's not being deliberately manipulative, because it is too easy to think he's trying to sleep with both Xaviers in the film), I think, is endemic of his problem of not being socialized in the larger context. The man is (understandably) not socialized/has a very disturbed framework, which still doesn't excuse the Othering and his inherent -isms. In a way, he's displaying a set of privileges like Charles in his dealing with Raven, just different ones.
I would think a sane person(that is, someone with less issues) would emphasize Raven's choice in the matter of who she is/how she wants to be seen. Erik has a massive persecution complex and his attempt to draw everyone else into it, possibly in a sort of joint-victimhood requires an enemy. It's possible that Charles inspired the possibility of "friends" who might sympathize with him. If Charles had not been injured, I wonder if Erik/Charles would continue to thrash matters out. Erik is not..
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While this is an extremely separatist perspective that possibly incepted her the idea that she's suppose to be held to a different standards because human standards don't apply, I still find it troubling that he's answering her by comparing her to an animal and still answering her question on a cosmetic level. This comparison is especially poignant given Hank's development into Beast. While there's the biological reality of being a mutant, Erik is still letting/using that to define everything else about her as well, which I find extremely dodgy for reasons described.
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It's deeper than a cosmetic level, though. While yes, it relates to her appearance, the word implies emotional and psychological elements. He doesn't say that she is "attractive like some attractive thing" or "pretty" or "gorgeous" the way that Charles does, when he compliments her. It does have to do with appearance, but the thing is, Raven doesn't look like a tiger. She has no physical tiger characteristics except maybe the eyes, and yet, Erik picks a word that is just loaded with meaning and implication and allusion in English-- I mean, the word is just soaked with the stuff. Blake, for example, and the danger of catching tigers, not to mention that the adage about stripe-changing, which is so on-the-head for Raven that I refuse to believe that Erik just sort of ran through his list of nouns and picked one, any one that was attractive for Raven ( ... )
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I would think a sane person(that is, someone with less issues) would emphasize Raven's choice in the matter of who she is/how she wants to be seen. Erik has a massive persecution complex and his attempt to draw everyone else into it, possibly in a sort of joint-victimhood requires an enemy. It's possible that Charles inspired the possibility of "friends" who might sympathize with him. If Charles had not been injured, I wonder if Erik/Charles would continue to thrash matters out. Erik is not..
( ... )
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