we didn't meet because of fate, but rather probability

[frith_in_thorns]

Soooo, yesterday evening I sat down to type up some of my November fic, and put Elementary on in the background because I had been meaning to get around to watching it. And then I accidentally most of the aired episodes, and barely any typing up. Oops

Comments

[parrot_knight]

There's a disturbing undercurrent (well, obvious river flowing through his work) of bullying in Steven Moffat's writing - some of the dialogue he gives the Doctor is intolerant and uninclusive in a way the Doctor hadn't been since the first few stories in 1963/4.

[frith_in_thorns]

Agreed, and that's why I've also stopped watching Doctor Who :(

[parrot_knight]

I couldn't stop - the programme is electronically registered on the two-inch analogue videotape of my personality.

[surreal_44]

I have a hard time with fandom in general at times, because of women's issues and the prevalence of slash writing.

I don't mind slash at all, but it's weird to me to see women complain all the time about women's down-played roles in television and film, and then in the next breath they write (in some cases, only write) slash fanfic, or discuss the slashy subtext.

It's an Issue for me that I generally try not to talk about too often for fear of being harshly reprimanded. :p

[frith_in_thorns]

Well, there is the rather valid point that usually it's the male characters who are better developed, have more backstory, more air-time, so you can feel you 'know' them better and therefore relate to them more and feel it's easier to write about them. And there's also the general way in which we're taught that mens' stories are Universal Human Experience while womens' are Women Issues.

When, however, you have a show with female leads who are ignored by fandom who say they do care about the women, honest, it's rather more annoying. Like people who say they care strongly about political stances but then ignore politics in the real world, which affects those things.

[surreal_44]

I know what the reasons are for writing slash. I've read the essays. :p

It still puzzles me that even as self-aware as so many women seem to be, they still flock in droves to write slash, and they generally ignore female characters, except to ship them off to some other destination so the men can have their mind-blowing sex.

I don't mind the slash, like I said. I just don't understand why self-aware women will ignore female characters at all costs, no matter how well written or developed they are.

[taste_is_sweet]

Jersey 5-0? It would be difficult to find an American prime-time show that is more stupid and ridiculous than Hawai'i 5-0 that takes itself so seriously (though there is also a great deal of pretty to admire while wincing at the ridiculousness).

[frith_in_thorns]

Merlin is more ridiculous than H50 by a factor of several million :P

[taste_is_sweet]

My husband and I just watched a H50 ep tonight for the lulz, and it was so freaking ridiculous that the idea of anything being worse absolutely boggles the mind. :)

[cerberusia]

I haven't been able to get into Elementary yet - I've been putting off trying it because from what I've seen on tumblr, their Holmes is missing most of what made Sherlock a compelling character for me - the US one's just too nice. But I guess that's what the Christmas vac's for~ (er, that and reading 4 books of the Iliad in Greek, 3 of the Aeneid in Latin and doing assorted language revision. Erk).

I watched Merlin for 2 and a half seasons, and when I accidentally switched on Merlin two weeks ago, I had to turn it off within the minute because THAT DIALOGUE. THAT DIALOGUE. It started out good in seasons 1 and 2 - aimed at children but with some fun for adults, without pretension and jolly good fun. What happened?

[frith_in_thorns]

See, though, having the main character be a Genius Asshole Straight White Guy isn't really a draw for me at all. Becuase Conan Doyle's Holmes isn't like that -- he's eccentric, and brusque, but he is actually quite nice to people. I think the interpretation of him as just having zero empathy for anyone and trampling on everyone around him in his quest for the ~truth~ is quite a recent one, made more popular by things like House and now Moffat's show. I like that Elementary isn't following that trend, because I think it makes for a much more interesting character.

As for Merlin... ahahaha. I think it decided to take itself seriously without actually bothering to change any of the things that mean you can't take it seriously, however hard you try. Although I very much love the Tiny Valley Of A Hundred Names *gg*

[cerberusia]

Aww, your icon! ♥

Yeah, the added sharpness which a lot of people didn't like was the thing I personally really liked about the change from ACD to BBC (trust me to do a thing like that XD). Because the way I see it, Sherlock is not only clever, he's frighteningly, fiendishly clever, enough to need cocaine to stop his brain from eating itself. And here he is, surrounded by all these people whose brains don't work like his and can't keep up, and it's nice to feel superior at first, but after a while it's just so frustrating. The world isn't built to accommodate people that clever, he's surrounded by people who can never challenge him, and he is alone and frustrated and pissed off. I found it a very compelling and believable portrait of a modern Holmes (and apparently had more thoughts about this than I realised, oops

[veleda_k]

he's eccentric, and brusque, but he is actually quite nice to people

Yes! Original Holmes cared about many of his clients, and he was friendly with the Yard. And he wasn't particularly arrogant. He knew he was smart, but he didn't think there was anything especially amazing about what he did. To him, his observations really were very simple.

Sometimes condescending, yes. An asshole, no.

[winterstar95]

Okay maybe I am an idiot and I shouldn't actually write this but my whole belief is that the US version of Sherlock, Elementary actually went with a female Watson so they wouldn't have to deal with the gay UST. Really, I refuse to watch it because Watson is a gal. Sorry, I don't mean to burst your bubble. Maybe it is good, and I hope it is. But I have my doubts about why Watson is a girl.

Slinking away now.......

[frith_in_thorns]

But they're perfectly happy with the gay UST in everything else. It's become almost expected, now, having the formula be two main guys that they can be really shippy with while reminding the viewers every now and then that they have girlfriends, guys, they're totally straight. And playing up to slash fandom on things like Twitter and in interviews, but with no expectation of ever changing the status quo.

That's not being radical and pushing for new things. That's trying to have your cake and eat it.

So, while that may well have been a consideration, and I have thought about that, having Watson be a woman, and a woman of colour, is actually a really big deal. And that's why I posted the quote above: they're not going "down" in progressiveness, they're going "up", because that supposed progressiveness was never actually there. If someone somewhere was willing to stand up and say, "yes, we're making a Sherlock and Watson who are in a queer relationship" that would be a massive deal, but they aren't. And they're not getting ally cookies

[winterstar95]

I think I would be more excited about it, if I didn't have my sneaking suspicions about the reasons and the fact that they were trying to make it different from the BBC Sherlock. If so, why couldn't they have taken the step and made Sherlock/Watson a gay couple? You know? Or how about if Watson is a gal make her lesbian? Now that would be an interesting twist.

But really I don't think it really should be about sexual orientation. It is really about the case and the brilliance of Sherlock with Watson as his foil and balance. So I suppose it really doesn't matter who you throw in the roles because it isn't a love story.

[veleda_k]

Elementary actually went with a female Watson so they wouldn't have to deal with the gay UST

But how would that benefit them? The two other recent Holmes adaptions, the BBC series and the Ritchie movies, both dialed the homoerotic subtext way up (but always dancing away at the last minute, of course; actual gay people are icky), and they've both been very successful. The BBC series is getting a third series, and if I remember correctly, they're making a third movie. Clearly, teasing the viewers with the possibility of gay is not ratings suicide. Quite the opposite, apparently.

And all that gay UST is in the eye of the beholder anyway. I don't see a bit of subtext between the original characters, so I see no reason why UST would have to be a part of any adaption.

All the BBC series and the Ritchie movies do is prioritize male homosocial bonds, while still maintaining the trappings of heterosexuality. That's pretty much the least revolutionary thing ever.