Too much for me to comment on it all. If I may take a few sections?
The beauty itself is, of course, part of the message. It is the beauty of organized space and time, of men moving in ranks and order, of word given and answer received according to a significant pattern."
As a church musician for many years, as one who has promoted ancient Gregorian services, this back in the 1970's, when it was less acceptable, I agree, but not only agree.
To explain: "The beauty itself is, of course, part of the message." This is not merely something that William MacNeil comments on in his history, Stepping in Time. This is the beauty of the music, of the tradition and the glories that this tradition has accrued through the millenia
( ... )
"...we do not place a complete void at the centre of our system of values.
Not at all, nor should you ever. But recall, too, that logic & order are not the only sources of values. Not that values are devoid of order, but they have this tendency to come at us afresh, anew -- like those great questions at the beginning of St. Augustine's Confessions, none of which admit to easy or only logical answers, but whose questioning continues to resonate us higher or deeper or both & more. These are questions which much continue to be lived, and which each new Saint has a tendency to live in a way that helps us hear them afresh. True?
"This order radiated outwards from its centre on the steps of the great basilica, to all the members of that enormous throng of pilgrims."What radiated outwards from the center is not, in its fullest expression, only order, though that was undeniably there, but also people. And maybe God? And while that always includes order and tradition, doesn't that also always include more, more than we can ever know
( ... )
One last comment. You mention "values". Remember, values aren't nouns but verbs, something living & moving & breathing & growing in understanding & wisdom. Isn't this true of anything you value? Don't you come to know it better as you live it longer? How could it be anything other than living?
Perhaps "valuing" might be closer to their lived Truth?
And we must not only come to know valuing, but we must understand the processes of valuing, the processes by which we grow in wisdom and understanding, not as merely "operationalizing" a noun, but as something which, when it is cut off from its "livingness" becomes a thing, and so can no longer lives within us.
I'll go, now. I promise. And I wouldn't blame you if you stopped reading me long before this....
I would think so, indeed. For a start philosophy as such comes to the Church from the Greek-speaking East, and to be a part of the Catholic Church involves paying attention to its teachings. I think it can be shown that many, perhaps all of the Councils in which Catholic theology has been refined and defined have seen important contributions from Eastern fathers. Besides, what I really meant was not so much logic and order in a reductive sense as logic and order as a feature of what the Greeks call kalokagathia, "The Good and the Beautiful" as one thing.
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The beauty itself is, of course, part of the message. It is the beauty of organized space and time, of men moving in ranks and order, of word given and answer received according to a significant pattern."
As a church musician for many years, as one who has promoted ancient Gregorian services, this back in the 1970's, when it was less acceptable, I agree, but not only agree.
To explain: "The beauty itself is, of course, part of the message." This is not merely something that William MacNeil comments on in his history, Stepping in Time. This is the beauty of the music, of the tradition and the glories that this tradition has accrued through the millenia ( ... )
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Not at all, nor should you ever. But recall, too, that logic & order are not the only sources of values. Not that values are devoid of order, but they have this tendency to come at us afresh, anew -- like those great questions at the beginning of St. Augustine's Confessions, none of which admit to easy or only logical answers, but whose questioning continues to resonate us higher or deeper or both & more. These are questions which much continue to be lived, and which each new Saint has a tendency to live in a way that helps us hear them afresh. True?
"This order radiated outwards from its centre on the steps of the great basilica, to all the members of that enormous throng of pilgrims."What radiated outwards from the center is not, in its fullest expression, only order, though that was undeniably there, but also people. And maybe God? And while that always includes order and tradition, doesn't that also always include more, more than we can ever know ( ... )
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Perhaps "valuing" might be closer to their lived Truth?
And we must not only come to know valuing, but we must understand the processes of valuing, the processes by which we grow in wisdom and understanding, not as merely "operationalizing" a noun, but as something which, when it is cut off from its "livingness" becomes a thing, and so can no longer lives within us.
I'll go, now. I promise. And I wouldn't blame you if you stopped reading me long before this....
avus
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By the way, Christos anestê! :-) (I'm not Mormon, incidentally)
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