How to sell your soul and your country and get nothing in return

[fpb]

There used to be a nasty little joke going around about the more prejudiced sections of the English public: "Heard the last about (whatever war was going on at the time)? Italy has surrendered just in case." I do not seem to hear it any more; probably because people have learned better than to say it in my presence

Comments

[lyssiae]

Done. I trust you know where to find it.

[kikei]

however, the thing is, even if you are not a hardliner, drawing a likeness of the Prophet Mohammed (and of any divinely-appointed leaded such as any of the preceding prophets or of the 12 righteous Imams as the Prophet's successors) is actually a grave sin. However, that is not to say we don't have our Islamic magazines and that they aren't illustrated. We have a very beautiful one called Mujtaba, targeting children, and it is heavily illustrated. The only thing is that the faces of religious personalities are obscured and replaced by a representation of the light of Allah that was a characteristic of every Chosen person. Those who wanted the illustrations - and those who did them - could have taken this route, and the fuss would have been unfounded because it is only the strictest of the strict who would have frowned upon such images, since they would not have even shown the Prophet's face. I shall scan in some pages from the magazines that we have to show you... those are very beatiful illustrations, and Mujtaba magazine is sold

[fpb]

Excuse me, Kiks, the issue is: this was work done by non-Muslims, for non-Muslims. If you presume to complain about that, you may as well demand that we pull down all our churches, since they feature all sorts of images of Issa, Ibrahim, Daoud, Suleiman, Ayub, etc... (Jesus, Abraham, King David, King Solomon, Job, etc.) This is neither more nor less than an attempt to influence the way we speak to each other, and as such, wholly unacceptable.

On the other hand, may I say that I appreciate your reasonable tone.

[kikei]

That is true. however, it features the Prophet who founded the Islamic religion and hence, even if it is to make non-muslims understand more about the life of the Prophet Mohammed, it needs to take into account tenets of the religion itself. And as for the churches... well, I was in a catholic school for a significant portion of my life. I have been surrounded by images of the prophets, and every classroom had an icon. Reason I don't ask for the churches to be pulled down... well, I don't agree with the likenesses being there because that is what I've been taught and I understand why... from the aspect of my religion. But I understand that the icons, the images, the statues... these are aspects of another religion, not my own. Yes, we have the same Prophets but this is how others portray them, and I'm fine, I guess, as long as I'm not asked to follow that example and if I'm allowed to believe in what I choose to believe

[fpb]

The harm would be that, by making the prophet's face into a ball of light, the artist would implicitly accept YOUR view of the historical Muhammed. I should imagine this was fairly obvious. Such a representation as good as calls for worship; it imposes on the viewer the idea that the man in question is a supernatural being, or a supernaturally visited one. In other words, you force us to lose any debate as to the truth of Muhammed's supposed reveleation, even before it started. And that is not good argument, nor good sense.

[kikei]

and does the book propose this view? if not that Mohammed was indeed the last Prophet (as we believe), then that he was blessed with revelations? the view is just as dependent on the content of the book as it is on the illustrations. If the book presents us with a 'supposed' view, that is, if it fosters debate over the truth/accuracy of Mohammed's status, then I see your point. However, if the book is written as if declaring that it is absolute truth that Mohammed was appointed by Allah as the last Prophet, then the illustrations showing his face as light would be completely in order. There is a combination of elements here... and until we have more information, the debate will go on and on and on.

(of course, healthy debate is always a good thing)

-Kiks

[fpb]

My dear Kiks, how in the world could the book possibly propose the view that Muhammad really was the last prophet if it was not by and for Muslims? And how, conversely, can you expect anyone who is not a Muslim to accept that view? It would be as insane as to say "I believe that Jesus Christ was God Incarnate, died for our sins, and rose from the dead, but I am not a Christian." To anyone who is not a Muslim, Muhammad is an important historical figure, and that is how he is naturally treated.

[goreism]

I think I read about this in the Corner.

First of all, why is it the Foreign Minister writing this e-mail? Is he speaking in some way for the Norwegian government, or is this in his private capacity? (He mainly uses the singular, which is why I ask.)

Secondly, what does "... enforce restrictions for incitement to hatred" mean? Apparently Magazinet, the Norwegian newspaper that published the pictures in support of Jyllands-Posten, hasn't been censured or anything.

I'm amused he referred to Islam as a "spiritual reference point."

[goreism]

The cartoons can be seen here for anyone interested, and links to a lot of posts on it.

[fpb]

The e-mail was to every Norwegian ambassador in the world, so one rather assumes that he was speaking in the name of the entity that passes for a government in Norway.

Cartooons

[pbswatcher]

Thanks for posting on this topic. The Danish newspaper which published the original cartoons has been forced to apologize. The Brussels Journal blog which has led the reporting of this attack on free speech is now receiving threats. Given the state of free speech in Europe as evidenced by the Italian "prove Christ existed" case, I expect Brussels Journal to be forced to remove the cartoons and their reporting. To guard against that possibility, I have reposted the cartoons and the Brussels Journal reporting thread on my blog. I urge all bloggers who care about free speech to do the same. See Farenheit 451 Alert