Some Cold-related ramblings.

[liabrown]

Most of you know I’m a big continuity nerd. I was re-reading the Wonderland story arc a while back, and was struck by one of Cold’s internal monologues in Flash v.2 #165. Now, this was Johns’ first arc on the Flash series, and doubtlessly he ended up revising some of his ideas for Len and the Snarts…but is there any way we can painlessly merge

Comments

[runenklinge]

There’s self-delusion, and then there’s this.
one semi-logical explanation is that Len was simply drunk at that time; very, very drunk.

I´m not sure what exactly happened in #165 exactly - also I´m far away from my trusty resources to look it up (unfortunately the thing I remember best are his opera gloves....damn my superficialness) maybe it could have been a really depressing time, where he might have thought that his sister was better off dead than living in this world.
I don´t think any brother could ever be happy about his sister dying, but maybe the times were really that bad.

Only real family I ever had was with the Rogues. Scudder, Rory, Mardon…Allen. But most are retired or-"
he´s missing a few names there in my humble opinion. And while he respects Allen, I seriously doubt that he would be considered part of Len´s family.

My vote: depressed or simply drunk as...a very drunk person. Damn you, English idioms.

[liabrown]

He wasn't drunk. He took a swig of whiskey as he was thinking/narrating it, but it was when he was stuck in the mirrorverse with Wally and they were on the run (so he didn't have time to be drinking much). He didn't seem terribly depressed either, making a bunch of cracks at everyone's expense during that storyline.

It really doesn't make much sense, IMO. I understand that Johns was still getting a feel for writing them (it takes me a while too, and he was pretty new to comics then), but that doesn't explain it canon-wise.

[modnaf]

Wasn't half the point of the mirror verse proving to the Len and Evan that they really wanted the Flashes influence in thier cities? That their cities without the intervention of the Speedster's were terrible? That could be why Barry was mentioned. (I've only read the arc once so I'm not sure.)

As for the Lisa ramble. They were occassionally a bit iffy. It's quite probably to think that at this time given whatever personal mood he was in and be mourning her the next. The Rogues have all in the acceptance/abuse of one another proved that they are fickle beings with quickly changing alliances and emotions. Most humans are.

I'm exploring to a point the concept of a storyline involving James adoring but yet betraying Piper in the most terrible way with the dropped? storyline from Countdown.

[liabrown]

Wasn't half the point of the mirror verse proving to the Len and Evan that they really wanted the Flashes influence in thier cities? That their cities without the intervention of the Speedster's were terrible? That could be why Barry was mentioned. (I've only read the arc once so I'm not sure.)

Yes, but it seems strange to pick Barry over Lisa or Digger (or even James). Also, by that point in the story, they hadn't realized it was a world without Flashes yet, so there'd be no reason for Len to reflect on it unless Johns just wanted to foreshadow things...which is fair enough, but kind of cheap storytelling.

As for the Lisa ramble. They were occassionally a bit iffy. It's quite probably to think that at this time given whatever personal mood he was in and be mourning her the next. The Rogues have all in the acceptance/abuse of one another proved that they are fickle beings with quickly changing alliances and emotions. Most humans are. The concept is kind of alien to me, but I'll take your word for it. I can understand being angry

[modnaf]

^^ Lets see if I can explain my thoughts on Lisa's death better. Len and Lisa had a relationship with many ups and downs, with the emphasis (at least from what I've seen) mostly being on the downs. At the end there with the Chillblainebots (I think the song Coin Operated Boy could apply to that part of her life) we'd hit a pretty sharp left curve to the normal ups and downs. Ignoring the extremly, I don't want to say flat but, un-emotionally soundness of villains in the pre-modern comics where we can go from trying to kill each other to being best buds in the span of 2 issues and any sort of logic to that kind of behavior you've got a pair of siblings that lived through hell, turned to their own lives and then to crime for very different reasons

[liabrown]

That makes some sense, although "But most of the time I’m glad she’s dead. We didn’t get along in the end" in conjunction together makes it sound more like he's still pissed at her than relieved she's no longer suffering. I can certainly understand why he'd be angry at her even at this point, but simply cannot get over him saying he's glad she's dead, because that just takes it way beyond what I'd expect from him and what we saw later. Add in the obvious errors/changes like Mr Snart's alcoholism, and the whole monologue is just vastly at odds with later established continuity.

You're right about Boomer, too.

I'm afraid I'm still voting for OOC :>