I've finally found the worst subject to argue about ever: Israel

Jul 21, 2014 20:55

It's friendship-ending. If I speak my mind, that's it, over ( Read more... )

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Comments 20

davesmusictank July 22 2014, 04:58:05 UTC
Actually i agree with you. Israel are in the wrong full stop.

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fizzyland July 22 2014, 05:01:27 UTC
Judaism is fine, the existence of Israel is fine, pretending all they do is fine is not.

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davesmusictank July 22 2014, 05:03:16 UTC
Exactly

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texasts July 22 2014, 06:01:20 UTC
Couldn't agree more.

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novapsyche July 22 2014, 12:33:36 UTC
It appears to me that Israel is acting the part of an abused child exacting abuse on its own subsequent family. Except Palestinians are more stepchildren in this regard, so they feel little personal regard for them.

Okay, bad metaphor, but it does seem like they're continuing the cycle of abuse. It's as if they don't remember what it's like to be oppressed.

Just my opinion. Also, I realize I need to delve deeper into the history of the conflict. But still.

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm speaking about the nation of Israel, not Israelis as people.

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pinstripe_bindi July 22 2014, 15:09:08 UTC
Eh, I suspect you and I have the same opinion on the subject: Israel has a right to exist, but that doesn't mean they are never the aggressor/always the victim in these conflicts. I have a Jewish cousin who I otherwise align with politically who is just incapable of seeing this issue in an unbiased light, so I've given up trying to discuss it with him.

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fizzyland July 22 2014, 16:14:08 UTC
Yes, indeed. I've met Israelis, even talked politics with one of them. As people go, it's a progressive nation with civil freedoms and rights unlike anywhere else in the Middle East.

However, their government is like ours - conservative shitheads exploit the situation to stay in power and act out against the people they've steadily been stealing land and resources from.

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peristaltor July 22 2014, 17:47:53 UTC
Actually, I'm not sure their government is like ours. In many ways, it is much worse, and might be the ultimate source of the problem.

In their Kineset, one needs only 1% of the vote to get voted in. What do people say about 1% of the population? Crazy. Name your flavor.

In Israel, one flavor is the ultra-religious rabbinical and Talmudic scholars. Fun fact: The only way to get exempted from military service and the need to work is to become one such scholar! They are on a generous dole, and just marry and have a gazillion kids, isolated from real life.

What kind of damage have these jerks done? For starters, they have decided that "Jew" is defined as someone whose maternal grandmother was herself a Jew. Got that? You can't be Jewish without being born that way, not in Israel. (I came upon this myself when offering to help out in a Jewish burial service for my father-in-law; I was partially Jewish, but not enough for the rabbi ( ... )

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fizzyland July 22 2014, 18:30:53 UTC
Informative and disturbing.

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heartonsnow July 22 2014, 23:50:58 UTC
Zionism isn't Judaism. I am a Jew and i agree.

Phew! Still friends!!

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fizzyland July 23 2014, 00:33:28 UTC
There we go. The firefight has mostly been on Facebook, which honestly I like a lot less than this place.

When people tell me that God gave that land to the Jews, I just back away slowly because they're obviously crazy.

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heartonsnow July 24 2014, 21:02:34 UTC
I can see why they think that, I just don't agree.

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fizzyland July 24 2014, 21:33:56 UTC
Years ago, I had a friend who was converting to Reform Judaism. I was somewhat interested so I read the study material. Strangely it was devoid of such claims.

So I guess I don't agree either. I'm glad Israel exists, without having to buy into Bronze Age narratives.

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matrexius July 24 2014, 03:54:42 UTC
As a non-Jew who married a Jew, also I'm totally in the "Judaism yay, Israel's existence yay, but no one is beyond reproach" camp.

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fizzyland July 24 2014, 11:27:07 UTC
The most progressive nation in the region needs to act like it. I'm of the thinking that happy, well-fed people are less hostile so if Israel actually helped develop areas like Gaza, then the bad guys would have a lot less support.

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