rambling about men and women, and where to draw the line/s

[fizit]

Firstly, go read Schrodinger's Rapist, if you haven't already...you may have already when it made the rounds a few years ago (judging by the huge number of comments, it looks like it got a high spin-around the netspace)...

And thanks to Clae for pointing it out to me... we were discussing unwanted attention, pretty much, and men who remain

Comments

[frou_frou]

I believe in straight and direct communication - some people will not understand your message unless it's really unambiguous, especially if they have a reason to not get it, they'll try to wheedle around it. Not helpful for anyone but there it is.

Also - if you're not interested in someone, you never have to justify that. Just saying that you're not interested is sufficient; if you get into a discussion about it, it becomes a lose-lose. Avoid if you can. If he asks "why" just smile sweetly and say that you don't have to justify your feelings...end of discussion. As if you could be talked into liking someone! It's either there or it's not.

[fizit]

Yeah I do tend to agree, it's just that every now and then 'straight up' becomes hard. Either because you're conditioned to 'be polite' (and personally I think that a whole range of people need training in how to just say no), or because you're genuinely unsure, and finding it hard to say 'maybe, please give me time, though'

[frou_frou]

I got a lot out of learning how to be assertive, and there's an excellent book (you probably know it) called "When I say No, I feel guilty".

I'm a lot better at clear communication now and find it much easier to avoid complications. It's okay to leave that door open if you're not sure, just say that you'd like to get to know them better but you're busy at the moment...? But I do think that there's nothing to be gained from not saying No when you mean No. The potential is there for disappoint if you're ambiguous.

Wish my brain was up for debate

[daisynerd]

I got that you were after debate, but am unfortunately too tired to come up with anything cogent. I think it is very interesting stuff though, where that line is. I've had a lot of success with blunt, but I've also been in the same position where you don't necessarily want to say no straight out because you're not completely sure it is a no. I think there is certainly something in taking responsibility for being clear about what you want (and, more importantly, don't want) in terms of attention from someone else, but in reality sometimes it's not as black and white and due to conditioning I think it is hard to always be straight up 100% blunt (and it can hurt feelings). But the boundary of playing mind games is different for everyone and at times I've been as honest as I could and yet someone else has still read it totally differently (and vice versa to be honest with myself). We're complicated little beasties and always want to read hope into a situation if we're hoping (even if there isn't actually a hope in hell

Re: Wish my brain was up for debate

[fizit]

Which is why i think the author of the original post is flawed in her reasoning.

The majority of people are fine when drawing theoretical conclusions about the world at large, but as soon as the theory is applied to a personal situation get all 'But that's not what I'm like! You're drawing the wrong conclusion!'

I've certainly either been oblivious to more stubtle brush offs, or unsure if a particular behaviour was actually a brush off, and overstepped lines myself. It's one of the reasons that I tend to agree that flat out blunt is always best. But it is interesting to note that even when I do try to be as blunt as possible, I still end up in situations where I find myself not being so...

Ton Again :o)

[anonymous]

PS if anyone ever hurt you i would get medieval on their ass.

Txx

[drbunsen]

Mixed signals o-rama, yeah?

Well, mixed signals are perfectly legitimate when your feelings are mixed! There's no reason IMHO for you to feel as if you've done anything "wrong" in that situation.

So, at what point are men supposed to just 'get' that fob off line? What point does, 'I'm saying no, without actually saying no' become 'you're not respecting by boundaries by persisting'?

I'm not sure there is a clearcut line here - it's all case by case. It's like the boundary between dry land and a swamp; there's no definite border, but you can tell when someone is knee-deep in mud and denying it.

I am appalling at getting hints. I much, much prefer a good honest "Fuck off" to a series of hints and guesses. I find them confusing and distressing - possibly something to do with the headfuckery I grew up with. But I make it a rule not to push things.