History, Time and Disney: Part One

[ficofandalasia]

Part Two: Time as an Illusion in Disney Animated Canon

Time and Place: Settings of Disney Films
Within Disney fandom, the debate over the historical and geographical settings of the films is a well-known one. d_princesses is a particularly good place for discussion on this topic, and there are posts here on location, and here, here and here on location and time

Comments

[lunabee34]

Okay, this is really freaking cool. It never occurred to me to wonder about the setting of these movies, but I am seriously impressed with the research here.

[afterandalasia]

Thank you! The sources that I referenced did a lot of the legwork for many of these, but I think it's always interesting to see what information might be available.

[sistermagpie]

I never even thought about this and now that I've read it I'm so glad that you did it! I didn't know I needed this information until you thought to look for it!

[afterandalasia]

Thanks! I did a lot of the background for this a while back when I wrote a series of drabble-fics that were supposed to be in the 'real' settings of the films. It turned out to be surprisingly complex.

[flo_nelja]

I had never only thought about this, and it's really, really cool.

[afterandalasia]

Thank you! I must admit that I find it interesting, as an adult, to go back and realise that these aren't (all) made-up places and times.

[dhampyresa]

This post is awesome and well documented.

I do have two nitpicks though: First, it's Ancien Régime, not Regime Ancien and second, Cinderella can't take place in an independent Brittany within the timeframe you propose: in the 1880s, formal dress in Brittany looked like this or this or other costumes, depending on where you were, but none of the costumes looked like the ones in the movie. (If you wanted more info, I have a great book on Breton Costumes and could conceivably scan/photograph some pages).

[afterandalasia]

Ooh, thank you. Knew I should have taken French for longer. -shakes head-

And that does make sense, to be honest. I was trying to find somewhere French-related on the Atlantic Coast and coming up a blank. I guess whatever Disney had in mind for the first one didn't continue into later films...

[swanpride]

Truthfully, I always thought that the discussion is somewhat daunting. Those movies mostly play in fairytale-land. Ie Snow White: Nope, not the black forest, for the simple reason that there are NO chipmunks, or aligators, or bluebirds or turtoises living there - or anywhere else in Germany. Or most of Europe. Based on the wildlife, Snow White plays in America...but there are no castles or queens or princesses. I mean, it's fun to see where the elements in the movies come from, but I don't think that they point to something specifically. The stuff in Ariel's grotto alone puts this movie in a couple different time periods and places.

[afterandalasia]

This actually intrigues me; I went and looked up screencaps of the film and you're right, although there are familiar European animals (deer, rabbits, squirrels) there are indeed chipmunks, raccoons, the tortoise, and of course the vultures at the end. (The bluebirds looked to me like blue tits, so... ymmv on them?) The alligators are questionable because they're in Snow White's mind, but how she could even know about alligators is certainly worth asking. There are 'Old World vultures' and a species related to tortoises that lived in Europe until the medieval period, but I'm not sure how closely they resemble those in the film. Part of me is highly tempted to blame this on the animators not knowing their geography, considering the research that seems to have been done into the clothing, but there is definitely a strong hint of 'fairy tale land

[swanpride]

Even the deers look more like the american than the European variant. Not that I blame Disney. When they did Snow White, it was a different time. Even if they had the budget to sent the animators to Europe, travelling wasn't that easy to do back then, and Germany was a political mess. And to draw animals accuratly, you have to see them in movement. For Bambi, they even bought deers to study. (And if you compare the movement of the deers in Snow White, with the movement of the ones in Bambi, it's obviously that the studies have paid off

[afterandalasia]

That's very true. I think that the animals are 'generic forest animals', and to American animators that meant American animals. And we do get some reptiles (including three species of snake and several lizards) as far north as Britain, but we are somewhat milder than Germany.

I must admit that I cringe now to realise how little I looked at the animals. I got rather caught up on the artefacts instead.

I think that you've got a very good point. Disney was probably after a 'once upon a time' that wasn't too tied in time or place, but ended up taking inspiration from certain eras in certain ways.

It's probably nice, particularly from a fanfiction point of view, to know where to go looking for inspiration for further worldbuilding. :)